I'm gonna agree that Cold is pretty vestigal and not really needed. There's an old saying that if something doesn't contribute to a story cut it out and I feel Cold is that.
I have a sneaking feeling that he likes the Buu arc more than the Cell arc because of the OG Dragonball feel at the start, which I can understand but for me it just drags on and on - not to say Cell didn't, but with Buu it feels like there's a ton of fakeouts introduced (Gotenks, Ultimate Gohan, Super Saiyan 3, Vegito) that really drag the story down. Buu really doubles down on all of the Cell Saga's weaknesses.
Also, not sure why he's complaining about Cell being an arc where humans are shafted. Tien's last stand is more impressive than basically anything Krillin does in the whole of the Freeza saga.
edited 18th Dec '17 3:55:32 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"I say that the Saiyan Saga was the weakest Z arc. The best things it did in the arc itself were Gohan and Piccolo's friendship and the Vegeta fight. All of the other good stuff it did was more set up for better stuff later in the series (Vegeta, the direction of the series from now on, Frieza foreshadowing, etc.).
edited 18th Dec '17 3:57:10 PM by LordVatek
This song needs more love.![]()
I actually think the Saiyan saga is the *strongest* Z arc. There are some really good fights, almost every character gets something to do, character arcs are pretty consistent and actually, Freeza isn't even mentioned until the Freeza arc starts; in fact I'd say a lot of the strongest parts of Z are built off of that foundation.
edited 18th Dec '17 4:01:29 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Like die.
No but seriously I agree with the character arcs and setting up the foundations of Z but almost none of them get payoff until later on. Like Vegeta is pretty much just an Arrogant Kung-Fu Guy who's after immortality and it isn't until Frieza that he gains depth. The only character arc that is truly paid off in the arc itself is Piccolo's. Basically it's a very important arc and the series can not function without it, but completely divorced from everything else, I don't find it that great.
And yeah after thinking about it, Frieza wasn't really foreshadowed. I misremembered.
edited 18th Dec '17 4:09:05 PM by LordVatek
This song needs more love.Eh, Ed Edd N Eddy did it.
edited 18th Dec '17 4:17:59 PM by LSBK
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I'll agree with that.
Characters were at the right level of power for me, and we got some interesting revelations.
Plus, it took a herculean massive effort to defeat Vegeta. I'd say it's biggest flaw was the constant jerking around with the spirit bomb, but even then, I'd admit it was used well.
Saiyan arc: all good baby.
Edit: ![]()
Well, pobody's nerfect.
edited 18th Dec '17 4:09:09 PM by HandsomeRob
One Strip! One Strip!![]()
Well, 9 characters...but it works.
"Like die."
Whoa there, tone it down a notch?
Even the really weak characters in the story get to do stuff (except Yamcha, poor Yamcha). Krillin gets to wipe out 3 Saibamen with his Scatter Ki Blasts. Choatzu and Tien get to go out heroically (while still jobbing), Piccolo gets to sacrifice himself to save his young charge and Gohan gets to deliver the spirit bomb *and* transform into a Great Ape to stop Vegeta. Even Yajirobe - *Yajirobe* - gets to deal one of the most critical strikes in the battle.
Vegeta himself might not be particularly deep at this point in the arc, but what he's important is as a foil to Goku. Goku is a wretch to Vegeta; Goku was born a mere serf while Vegeta is nobility (though his rank of Prince is also not introduced at this point) yet Goku stands on the cusp of surpassing Vegeta. Vegeta embraces the Saiyan way of crushing opponents while Goku rejects it. Goku, in this arc, is more than Saiyan: he's a Saiyan *from Earth* who combines his natural talents with the wisdom imparted by Master Roshi, Korrin, Popo, Kami and now King Kai to defend a planet instead of destroying it. By defying Vegeta, Goku defies the entire burden of fate that the universe had sought to drop on his shoulders.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"I mean, am I wrong?
Also I don't really look as favorably on Tien and Chiaotzu's sacrifices than others might be. They try, but they did precisely jack. Piccolo and Yajirobe were good, no arguments there, and Krillin and Gohan doing important things continues on for a while.
This song needs more love.![]()
I mean I'd prefer you don't make death threats, joking or not.
I get what you're saying about Tien and Chaotzu but it does help build tension (or Tiension, or Tensionhan...) for Nappa.
Also, I don't think Krillin really does anything impressive ever again really, aside from mocking Freeza.
Raditz is 1500 give or take, Vegeta is 18000, so he's 12 Raditzes.
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Oh that wasn't a death threat. You said "everyone gets something to do" and I was making a joke about how most of those characters died.
And Krillin might not get something important to do fighting-wise but he's a very important character in general in the Frieza and Cell arcs.
edited 18th Dec '17 4:47:26 PM by LordVatek
This song needs more love.Oh, my bad, sorry. That's totally on me.
The only time the humans are used exceptionally well outside of the Saiyan Saga is when Tien gets to stall Cell IMO. Krillin (and Gohan) don't achieve jack shit on Namek and the human cast basically does nothing important for the rest of the series. Should have just left them all retire like Yamcha and baseball. If they wanted to humans to still be relevant as backup they should have given them the Kaioken (and let them drink the Ultra Divine Water).
edited 18th Dec '17 4:52:21 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"It would be better if...
All the characters died and...we got a DB Generations or something...
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.

If it makes you feel any better he explicitly says he likes both the Cell and Buu arcs, he just doesn't think they're as good compared to most of the other arcs of the series.