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Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#72201: Dec 17th 2017 at 1:09:44 PM

Man, how salty would fans be if Dyspo took out 17 or Gohan?

Envyus Since: Jun, 2011
#72202: Dec 17th 2017 at 1:12:41 PM

[up][up]They are not stronger then 18 individually.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#72203: Dec 17th 2017 at 1:27:14 PM

If you think 3 years of medicore training could bring him up to 9 million from that point, I don't see how you could ever complain about Goten and Trunks' strength

Fun fact, Namek saga Goku was exactly as many times stronger than Krillin as Freeza was than Goku - 40 times. So if base Goku didn't caught up with Freeza until gaining God Ki, there's no way that Krilin ever even reached the level of base Goku during Freeza fight. You know, since Krilin is both less talented than Goku and dosen't train nearly as hard.

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#72204: Dec 17th 2017 at 1:32:23 PM

They were beyond him in Z but Krillin is better in Super. Its dumb, illogical and inconsistent. You don't have to like it, but that is how it is. Been that way for months.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#72205: Dec 17th 2017 at 1:37:18 PM

I'm still not sure why everyone's complaining so much about Krillin when Super has some far worse breaks with logic throughout. (Half of what F. Trunks ever does, Super Saiyan Rose, etc.)

If Super's going to abandon logic entirely (and let's face it, logic was abandoned back in DBZ and that's being charitable, remember when Goku got stronger than Taopaipai in three days?) I'd prefer it be to have emotional moments with characters. I freely admit, for example, that Roshi getting as strong as he has is absolute bullshit, but it's been bullshit for decades and at least we're getting some good character moments.

Those good character moments (see also Piccolo seeing Kami and Nail and all the filler episodes) are literally the only reason to watch Super - unless you're watching for the majestic plot of "tournament - time travel bullshit - tournament" or the fantastic fighting scenes of "fight for two seconds cut to the peanut gallery".

Yes, there is a lot of blatant nostaglia bait but "blatant nostalgia bait" might as well be the tagline of Dragonball Super.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#72206: Dec 17th 2017 at 1:40:33 PM

Yeah pretty much. We are 120 episodes into this and people spend every ep acting like it is some new thing. Two and a half years of this, it isn't gonna change.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#72207: Dec 17th 2017 at 1:44:49 PM

Nostalgia doesn't have to be done haphazzardly. If done well it can enrich the experience. Super often falls short of that, at least for me, and seemingly others.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#72208: Dec 17th 2017 at 1:53:01 PM

Too late: the power system is already fucked to high heaven. Even if we drop having the humans in at all (and I honestly prefer them in a tertiary role a la Tien in the Cell Arc) you still have a system where the top guy makes everyone else worthless. Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo et al. don't really have anything that means they would be better fighting someone than Goku would.

At best you might have what the movies are on repeat. Some guy and his goons arrive, the secondary cast dispatches the mooks, Vegeta or Gohan jobs to the main bad guy then Goku arrives and kills him, repeat.

Now, I suppose you could have mini-arcs where the side cast get a chance to shine. That would be okay. And the filler episodes would hopefully be kept in whatever incarnation. The problem is the big ones, the ones that Dragonball is known for .

edited 17th Dec '17 1:59:09 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#72209: Dec 17th 2017 at 1:58:11 PM

um...

they actually don't dispatch the mooks...

...they get utterly stomped because Goku isn't there, and he usually does all the work himself...

..well, ok, Piccolo, Vegeta and Trunks get a few to defeat, but they ultimately fall victim to an ass whooping.

I guess my statement only applies to the humans.

One Strip! One Strip!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#72210: Dec 17th 2017 at 2:00:33 PM

[up] Yeah, that's why I've seperated the humans into tertiary cast, where they get three jobs: have character interactions, kill one or two mooks if it's a giant army a la Freeza, or get to do a holding action a la Tien and Cell.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#72211: Dec 17th 2017 at 2:03:52 PM

For anyone watching Dragon Ball Super who dialikes it: you don't have to watch it. It's fairly predictable, you know what you're going to get from it. If you don't like it and don't think it's going to improve, don't watch it. The show does not need your viewership to survive, it is the second most watched anime on TV.

As an aside, is there a term for a show that's Darker and Edgier, despite its predecessor being Bloodier and Gorier? Because that's definitely what Super is right now. Or hell, even just a Trope for the opposite of Bloodier and Gorier that doesn't necessarily imply Lighter and Softer?

edited 17th Dec '17 2:06:08 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#72212: Dec 17th 2017 at 2:16:45 PM

I'd say that'd just be Darker and Edgier, but zigzagged.

The legend has returned.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#72213: Dec 17th 2017 at 2:20:47 PM

I guess, yeah.

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#72214: Dec 17th 2017 at 2:25:11 PM

For anyone watching Dragon Ball Super who dialikes it: you don't have to watch it

I hate this line of thinking so much. People can watch whatever they want to watch, and expect quality. Seriously, if we want a piece of media to be good (and we know it can be good), then there's nothing wrong with continuously consuming it hoping it'll get better.

edited 17th Dec '17 2:25:48 PM by hardcorefakes

Envyus Since: Jun, 2011
#72215: Dec 17th 2017 at 2:28:33 PM

@Sigilbreaker 26

What logic breaks with Super Saiyan Rose. It's just an alternate coloring of Blue.

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#72216: Dec 17th 2017 at 2:48:57 PM

You can do whatever you want, I just don't get why the same people always make the same complaints week after week. It has been 120 eps you know what you are gonna get. I understand watching something with hopes it will get better, but not for 2.5 years.

edited 17th Dec '17 2:51:06 PM by Jedi1113

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#72217: Dec 17th 2017 at 2:50:38 PM

Maybe expecting things to change is a foolhardy exercise, but those complaints don't become less valid with repetition.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#72218: Dec 17th 2017 at 2:51:19 PM

[up][up][up][up]Wanting quality and expecting to dislike it, to be more accurate.

edited 17th Dec '17 2:52:49 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#72219: Dec 17th 2017 at 2:51:47 PM

[up][up] Why is it a different colour?

Okay so it's not a *big* thing, but it is irritating it never gets explained (except in the manga, which does a tiny short explanation that makes sense).

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#72220: Dec 17th 2017 at 2:52:51 PM

I mean, part of it is because others (mostly Pushover) isn't actually accepting these things for what they are, but constantly twisting things to make it sound like they were always like this, or make sense for the series.

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#72221: Dec 17th 2017 at 2:53:12 PM

They don't become less valid but it really just feels like a waste of time to me. It is way too much of an investment just to feel 'maybe it will get better ' practically every ep. That's just me personally. I know the show isn't really good, but I enjoy it regardless.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#72222: Dec 17th 2017 at 2:53:57 PM

They are not stronger then 18 individually.

Yes they are, by a wide margin. This is made clear through multiple points in the manga, 18 is far weaker than any of the mastered Super Saiyans.

You have nothing to back up your claim.

Also, saying that Super is already illogical so it may as well go further is such a terrible argument. Yeah, the previous bits would still be illogical, and it'll never be airtight, but they could always just try and do better. They can work and being more and more consistent going forward, or at the very least avoid getting worse about it.

What you achieve by empowering/handwaving the humans (fuck all beyond pandering) is not worth the logic breaks to facilitate it.

[up] But I'm not expecting it to be better. I just like to keep up to date with what is happening in the franchise since I am still a fan of DB, even if Super is trash.

edited 17th Dec '17 2:55:26 PM by Saiga

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#72223: Dec 17th 2017 at 2:54:22 PM

If something is really bad though it still deserves complaints.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#72224: Dec 17th 2017 at 2:56:45 PM

Again it isn't about complaining itself. I have plenty myself, I just don't understand keeping up with something this long just to complain. Maybe I just don't have the level of hope you do, if something is consistently causing more complaints than praises to me I just stop.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#72225: Dec 17th 2017 at 2:58:51 PM

[up][up]That's not really the problem.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.

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