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Maybe not in hindsight...but only because the mind doesn't work that way.
edited 13th Dec '17 8:48:07 PM by randomness4
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.It can be.
Mainly my problem is that sometimes it feels like he isn't trying. DB is very formulaic. The Freeza, Cell and Buu arcs have some very interesting beginnings but they all turn into FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT at the end. Half the cast never does anything. Character development is less than an afterthought, it's almost always an accident.
The inconsistencies are irritating but Dragonball has far too many other problems for those to be the main ones.
Still love the series to death though. For some reason. Don't know why.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"I don't like it enough to watch it again in all its glory...
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
X4
Don't try and classify me man!
edited 13th Dec '17 8:54:42 PM by HandsomeRob
One Strip! One Strip!I like the way DB does its character development. The series takes place over a large enough period of time that the characters can grow organically and in far subtler ways. They still have examples of more in-your-face development, like Kuririn, Ten, Piccolo, Vegeta, Gohan... you can't argue their development is accidental with how heavy-handed it is.
That kind of stupid is what DB is known for...
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice....
Do you really think Goku is capable of that?
Because I agree with you about how stupid that is (and it's in the manga too, which means it's a part of Toriyama's notes), but honestly, I don't think Goku will screw with people in that way.
He'll sandbag during a tournament in order to make the fight look good (against both Krillin, and the second Tien fight), but he won't do something like that to troll them.
...God, I hate that he never kissed Chi-chi thing so much. It doesn't even make any fucking sense. I can't find an ounce of humour in it, and I'd take anything else in the series over that.
One Strip! One Strip!The thing is, the problem with DB's character development is that Goku himself doesn't really go through any. You can draw a clear line from pretty much when he was introduced to where he is now and he's still hungry all the time, enjoys fighting, protects his friends, kind of an idiot and so on. Now, you don't always have to have a main character who develops or changes but the problem is that those are pretty much Goku's only character traits. He's just not that deep; I'd almost call him a Pinball Protagonist but he's more like a plot device who comes in to win battles. During Z the side characters dominate every arc, especially Gohan and Vegeta. If you subtract Buu Gohan basically becomes the flat out main protagonist of Z. Piccolo and Gohan dominate the Saiyan Saga, Vegeta, Gohan and Krillin the Namek Saga, Gohan, Vegeta and Trunks the Cell Saga and Vegeta and Gohan the Buu Saga (though Goku is at his most important in Buu).
That's not to say that there aren't any solid character arcs, but the only really super consistent ones in my eyes are that of Piccolo and Tien, mainly because after they finish they aren't major enough characters to get their arcs botched.
Gohan and Vegeta have pretty good arcs, but I have a few problems with them both; Vegeta comes off fairly Easily Forgiven, and while at the end of the Cell Arc he's finally gotten over his pride after it costs Trunks his life, the Buu arc kind of screws it up. I can handle Majin Vegeta even if I think it's a bit rushed - he hasn't been a nicer guy long enough for a Face–Heel Turn to work properly I don't think, and his otherwise fantastic self sacrifice is ruined by it having basically no long term narrative consequences. I do think that post-Z works have gotten Vegeta into a nice status quo but during Z itself his arc is a mixed bag.
Gohan, again, has a perfectly handled character arc up until the end of the Cell Games where he finally comes into his own. Then... he goes downhill. He gets what I consider to be the single least narratively appropriate DB powerup with Mystic Gohan, even if it is really cool, and the series just doesn't seem to know what to do with him after this point. The torch was passed to him from Goku and then it got taken right back.
Maybe it's a little unfair to say every bit of character development was an accident but good character beats are often fleeting things in this series. Honestly I would have a lot less problems if the series had just ended with Cell.
I don't think it's any coincidence that two of the most naunced and consistent DB stories - Bardock, Father of Goku and History of Trunks - are from outside of Toriyama's remit.
edited 13th Dec '17 10:51:49 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"We’ve been over this before, but Goku isn’t really supposed to get character development: his is the kind of story where the protagonist is static but by touching he lives of the people around him he changes them and spurs them to grow.
The best example of another character like this is Forrest Gump, but it’s common in the kind of folklore stories that Dragonball takes much of its inspiration from.
In any case, while he character development in the series is far from perfect, the idea that Goku not getting any is a sign of fault feels like misreading the series.

I've already seen enough of Plague of Grips to know what he calls an inconsistency isnt entirely accurate or fair.
edited 13th Dec '17 8:48:05 PM by Saiga