TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#71726: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:47:43 PM

I've already seen enough of Plague of Grips to know what he calls an inconsistency isnt entirely accurate or fair.

edited 13th Dec '17 8:48:05 PM by Saiga

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#71727: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:47:48 PM

[up][up][up][up]Maybe not in hindsight...but only because the mind doesn't work that way.

edited 13th Dec '17 8:48:07 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#71728: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:50:26 PM

It can be.

Mainly my problem is that sometimes it feels like he isn't trying. DB is very formulaic. The Freeza, Cell and Buu arcs have some very interesting beginnings but they all turn into FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT at the end. Half the cast never does anything. Character development is less than an afterthought, it's almost always an accident.

The inconsistencies are irritating but Dragonball has far too many other problems for those to be the main ones.

Still love the series to death though. For some reason. Don't know why.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#71729: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:50:48 PM

Future Mai isn't necessarily terrible, but she doesn't add a whole lot either and her scenes are largely pointless.

In the anime, at least. Haven't seen much of her in the manga.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#71730: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:51:15 PM

Its been years, you either like it or you don't lol

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#71731: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:52:01 PM

I don't like it enough to watch it again in all its glory...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#71733: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:53:42 PM

Kai has managed to refresh my love of the series.

Before it came on Toonami I had largely fallen off the franchise.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#71734: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:54:12 PM

[up]X4

Don't try and classify me man!

edited 13th Dec '17 8:54:42 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#71735: Dec 13th 2017 at 9:01:52 PM

I will give Kai credit: while the Buu Arc is still poorly paced due to the absurd amount of filler, the writing for some parts does make up for it. Babidi was a lot less annoying than I remembered him being as a kid.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#71736: Dec 13th 2017 at 9:03:38 PM

I like the way DB does its character development. The series takes place over a large enough period of time that the characters can grow organically and in far subtler ways. They still have examples of more in-your-face development, like Kuririn, Ten, Piccolo, Vegeta, Gohan... you can't argue their development is accidental with how heavy-handed it is.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#71737: Dec 13th 2017 at 10:27:33 PM

I choose to believe that Goku is just screwing with Vegeta when he says he's never kissed Chichi before. That is so stupid I can't believe it.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#71738: Dec 13th 2017 at 10:28:28 PM

That kind of stupid is what DB is known for...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#71739: Dec 13th 2017 at 10:30:01 PM

It went from stupid straight down to fucking r@#$%d-ville though.

[up][up] That is a good interpretation especially since Goku has shown to be a troll on the occasion.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#71740: Dec 13th 2017 at 10:30:14 PM

...

Do you really think Goku is capable of that?

Because I agree with you about how stupid that is (and it's in the manga too, which means it's a part of Toriyama's notes), but honestly, I don't think Goku will screw with people in that way.

He'll sandbag during a tournament in order to make the fight look good (against both Krillin, and the second Tien fight), but he won't do something like that to troll them.

...God, I hate that he never kissed Chi-chi thing so much. It doesn't even make any fucking sense. I can't find an ounce of humour in it, and I'd take anything else in the series over that.

One Strip! One Strip!
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#71741: Dec 13th 2017 at 10:32:23 PM

Goku would have been capable of it before Super happened. The brain damage he apparently took from Buu has really taken a toll on him.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#71742: Dec 13th 2017 at 10:34:31 PM

Well he was willing to sell out Bulma & Videl's dignity.

Sure the fate of the world was riding on it but still he was extremely devious in dealing with Old Kai.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#71743: Dec 13th 2017 at 10:46:12 PM

The thing is, the problem with DB's character development is that Goku himself doesn't really go through any. You can draw a clear line from pretty much when he was introduced to where he is now and he's still hungry all the time, enjoys fighting, protects his friends, kind of an idiot and so on. Now, you don't always have to have a main character who develops or changes but the problem is that those are pretty much Goku's only character traits. He's just not that deep; I'd almost call him a Pinball Protagonist but he's more like a plot device who comes in to win battles. During Z the side characters dominate every arc, especially Gohan and Vegeta. If you subtract Buu Gohan basically becomes the flat out main protagonist of Z. Piccolo and Gohan dominate the Saiyan Saga, Vegeta, Gohan and Krillin the Namek Saga, Gohan, Vegeta and Trunks the Cell Saga and Vegeta and Gohan the Buu Saga (though Goku is at his most important in Buu).

That's not to say that there aren't any solid character arcs, but the only really super consistent ones in my eyes are that of Piccolo and Tien, mainly because after they finish they aren't major enough characters to get their arcs botched.

Gohan and Vegeta have pretty good arcs, but I have a few problems with them both; Vegeta comes off fairly Easily Forgiven, and while at the end of the Cell Arc he's finally gotten over his pride after it costs Trunks his life, the Buu arc kind of screws it up. I can handle Majin Vegeta even if I think it's a bit rushed - he hasn't been a nicer guy long enough for a Face–Heel Turn to work properly I don't think, and his otherwise fantastic self sacrifice is ruined by it having basically no long term narrative consequences. I do think that post-Z works have gotten Vegeta into a nice status quo but during Z itself his arc is a mixed bag.

Gohan, again, has a perfectly handled character arc up until the end of the Cell Games where he finally comes into his own. Then... he goes downhill. He gets what I consider to be the single least narratively appropriate DB powerup with Mystic Gohan, even if it is really cool, and the series just doesn't seem to know what to do with him after this point. The torch was passed to him from Goku and then it got taken right back.

Maybe it's a little unfair to say every bit of character development was an accident but good character beats are often fleeting things in this series. Honestly I would have a lot less problems if the series had just ended with Cell.

I don't think it's any coincidence that two of the most naunced and consistent DB stories - Bardock, Father of Goku and History of Trunks - are from outside of Toriyama's remit.

edited 13th Dec '17 10:51:49 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#71744: Dec 14th 2017 at 5:35:23 AM

I would love to see a fight between the Trio De Dangers and Kamikaze Fireballs. Power of love vs brotherly love. There can be a whole dynamic over which team's love is stronger. It can end in a kaiju battle between Giant Bergamo and Giant Ribrianne.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#71745: Dec 14th 2017 at 8:58:38 AM

So apparently Uub was in the Super manga?

This song needs more love.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#71746: Dec 14th 2017 at 9:04:04 AM

We’ve been over this before, but Goku isn’t really supposed to get character development: his is the kind of story where the protagonist is static but by touching he lives of the people around him he changes them and spurs them to grow.

The best example of another character like this is Forrest Gump, but it’s common in the kind of folklore stories that Dragonball takes much of its inspiration from.

In any case, while he character development in the series is far from perfect, the idea that Goku not getting any is a sign of fault feels like misreading the series.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#71747: Dec 14th 2017 at 11:37:07 AM

Okay, Zamasu and Black explaining their plan at length. I think I choose this moment as the point where the arc begins to suck.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#71748: Dec 14th 2017 at 11:41:26 AM

[up] Are they at their mountain cabin there?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TwistedGear Don't know how to pilot this thing Since: Jun, 2014
Don't know how to pilot this thing
#71749: Dec 14th 2017 at 11:45:47 AM

[up][up] I'd say it's the opposite if it's the same scene I'm thinking of. My only problem with the Goku Black arc was the ending and maybe the constant swinging momentum it had.

edited 14th Dec '17 11:45:56 AM by TwistedGear

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#71750: Dec 14th 2017 at 11:55:47 AM

^^ No, it's when Trunks, Goku and Vegeta go Back to the Future and get their shit kicked in again. Before this the arc wasn't exactly great, but it was okay. After that nonsensical speech I'm pretty sure the rest of the arc is going to be awful, though.

edited 14th Dec '17 11:56:20 AM by Arha


Total posts: 130,800
Top