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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#71676: Dec 13th 2017 at 7:24:21 PM

He is a true genuine monster.

Nothing else like him.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#71677: Dec 13th 2017 at 7:26:26 PM

Frieza ruined the power scaling for Dragon Ball as a whole. Frieza pretty much put series on a different path since he powered up with new forms.

"Mai waifu."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#71678: Dec 13th 2017 at 7:26:29 PM

The Supreme Kais are ages above the regular directional Kais and the planetary gods like Kami, too. We don't have a hard figure for the Grand Kai, though.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#71679: Dec 13th 2017 at 7:43:25 PM

Yeah. Frieza completely changed everything, though mostly in raising powers to such a level that nothing less would ever do again.

One Strip! One Strip!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#71680: Dec 13th 2017 at 7:44:53 PM

I have to wonder why the Anime made Beerus and Champa so much more antagonistic after the tournament.

Its' like what they did with Goku at the beginning of this arc of him being "EVIL" but never actually address it.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#71681: Dec 13th 2017 at 7:51:00 PM

I swear I remember hearing somewhere that Shin was as strong as Perfect Cell.

This song needs more love.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#71682: Dec 13th 2017 at 7:57:13 PM

Freeza really did fuck shit up. I don't think there's ever as drastic a proportional leap as when he starts going up in forms. In his first form he's almost 5 times as strong as Captain Ginyu and it only gets more ridiculous from there.

You know, I know it's really iconic but the later part of the Freeza saga may be some of my least favourite DB stuff.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#71683: Dec 13th 2017 at 7:58:40 PM

[up][up] That can't be possible if he's weaker than Dabura, who was said to be on par with Perfect Cell.

[up] I feel Toriyama wanted Freeza to actually feel as powerful as he was presented. He just did it in a way that didn't leave a lot to imagination.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#71684: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:00:46 PM

But he's almost 60 Ginyu's at full power. Freeza only works if he never ever lets go of the villain ball; had he gotten bored at literally any point in the fight before the point where he finally did that would be that. He kills the entire team and flies off in a sulk.

edited 13th Dec '17 8:01:12 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#71685: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:03:42 PM

It's a stretch to call it villain ball. He was dominating that fight all the way through, never using more power than necessary to do so.

They could have been clearer about why he needs to use restricted forms, conserving energy would have been fine and fits his 100%.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#71686: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:03:52 PM

But what would the point of that be? He had no reason to hurry up or be cautious because no one there could actually challenge him until Goku went Super Saiyan. Up until that point Frieza was indeed the strongest (mortal) in the universe, and he literally had nothing to fear, so why bother being careful?

edited 13th Dec '17 8:04:37 PM by LSBK

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#71687: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:05:21 PM

It makes perfect sense why he didn't kill them immediately.

Plus the fact he is a major sadist known for dragging fights just to satisfy his own perverse enjoyment.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#71688: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:06:09 PM

He's also a sadist, so prolonging fights to torture his opponents is kind of his MO.

EDIT: Well fuck me, I got [nja]'d

edited 13th Dec '17 8:06:26 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#71689: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:07:36 PM

Pretty much.

Being the biggest baddest dog in the yard plus enjoying playing with his food equals dragging out a fight he could have won in seconds.

Even now, with learning there are others who can match him and surpass him, Frieza still hasn't overcome his tendency to toy with weaker opponents.

One Strip! One Strip!
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#71690: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:08:11 PM

Shin would be afraid of a twig if he thought it would wake up Buu.

Remember when Shin thought friggin Pui Pui was a big deal?

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#71691: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:08:57 PM

He wasn't "dominating the fight" he could have killed them at *literally any point* during it. We really only see him start to fatigue when he goes all out 100%.

Remember, Gohan and Krillin both have a power level of something like 18'000 for Gohan and less for Krillin, so they're 100% useless at all times unless Gohan gets angry. Vegeta is just not enough to make up the distance and it's only when Piccolo gets there that they make any headway at all - and by that I mean Freeza goes third form and kicks their asses without trying. Vegeta pulls the Zenkai stunt and Freeza's fourth form shuts him down completely. Then Goku gets there and has to pull out the 20x Kaioken to even match Freeza.

Like, a little bit of underestimating, sure, I don't mind that. But this goes on for aaaages and aaages and there's never a point where the combatants are equally matched (in the manga at least). It's just Freeza toying with everyone for ages then Goku goes SSJ and Freeza gets his ass dominated.

edited 13th Dec '17 8:10:49 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#71692: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:09:18 PM

[up][up][up][up] What does that ninja symbol mean?

edited 13th Dec '17 8:09:29 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#71693: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:10:37 PM

...Yes, which is why there's nothing particularly stupid about his behavior. He could just kill them all, but that's not what he wanted to do and he had absolutely no reason to believe they could ever be a threat to him. When you're in total control of the situation that affords you the right to handle the situation however you want.

edited 13th Dec '17 8:11:28 PM by LSBK

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#71694: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:11:40 PM

[up][up] If nobody was able to even phase him, how is that not dominating a fight? He was literally unstoppable before Goku went Super Saiyan as any headway the characters made was meaningless because he was still technically holding back.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#71695: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:12:31 PM

It's really goddamn boring is what I'm saying. In the Vegeta fight they were at least able to wear him down and everyone played a part. Vegeta did make the same mistake (taking a frikkin three hour break) but it was glossed over really quickly, whereas in the Freeza fight there aren't any stakes because the heroes accomplish jack shit.

[up] It isn't dominating a fight because it's not a fight. There's no struggle. He's a cat toying with his food.

edited 13th Dec '17 8:13:20 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#71696: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:14:12 PM

Are ya saying they should've run away like smart guys...?

[up]It's domination whether it's a "fight" or not.

edited 13th Dec '17 8:14:58 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#71697: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:14:45 PM

I mean, if that's how you feel fine I guess?

I mean, I don't see anything wrong with having a villain who gives the main characters trouble. Isn't that kind of the point?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#71698: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:16:06 PM

They did have legitimate chances to kill him.

Piccolo did overpower him in his second form.

They just didn't kill him fast enough. tongue

[up] Its basically one big epic brawl against a mortal-deity.

edited 13th Dec '17 8:17:06 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#71699: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:16:22 PM

[up][up][up]Well that wouldn't have worked either.

Frieza was more powerful, and thereby faster as well. There was no hope for them to get away or win once he decided to come after them.

He was unfairly strong and the heroes had no options besides dying, or dying agonizingly.

[up][up] He wasn't just giving them trouble. They literally had no chance of winning at all. Nothing they did phased him in the slightest.

Even Goku's strongest techniques, which at least did a bit of damage to Vegeta had no effect at all on him. Frieza wasn't even weakened from the Spirit Bomb.

I'll admit, if Toriyama really wanted to drive home just how ridiculously unstoppable Frieza was, he succeeded.

edited 13th Dec '17 8:18:15 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#71700: Dec 13th 2017 at 8:17:38 PM

Not ever villain should be like Frieza, but a villain like Frieza where just nothing matters because they're just that powerful can be really engaging if done right. But if it's not your thing, it's not your thing.


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