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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#71301: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:34:21 PM

[up] Which is why GL should give Veggie a good fight.

[up][up] While I love Carrot & Veggie with all my heart & soul its annoying as fuck how fans over-hype them & anime characters in general.

edited 9th Dec '17 8:35:02 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#71302: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:35:58 PM

They have to be God tier because Goku and Vegeta are, actually. So is Freeza and maybe Gohan.

This issue of making God tier fighters "special" could be solved by giving each universe a God of Destruction candidate, like Toppo is. That way at least 1 person on each team has a God tier fighter without it making the achievement of that tier feel unimportant.

Nope, that doesn't solve anything. That's just saying they're God tier. We still don't know how they got there, or why U 7 was the last to get there, or why everyone acts so impressed with Goku when he's actually only just recently caught up with the rest of the universes.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#71303: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:36:01 PM

I know what you meant, that's not why I mentioned Jiren. I meant that Jiren had very little build up or justification for his power.

Well you see, Jiren does nothing but sit around and meditate all day. So that's how he got so strong, since meditation counts as training in this universe.

Rynnec Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#71304: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:38:07 PM

[up]x3 If it's DBS Veggie than he's sadly too far above most of the JL's paygrade.

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#71305: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:39:24 PM

What is this point then? If having other God tier characters somehow ruins our heroe, then why bother bringing in 7 other universes? To show how special Goku and Vegeta are? We know this already. This could have easily just been U7, U11 and U6. Literally no one else matters.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#71306: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:39:41 PM

Late, but

The speed at which characters travel to places and how much destructive power they have is completely inconsistent with how they fight. Toriyama's universe is either really tiny and with worlds made out out of paper mache or he doesn't at all understand the scale he's dealing with. One tenth of a second would be enough to have a serious advantage in a human level fight, let alone if characters were FTL. Vegeta with millions of times the strength necessary to destroy a planet can't break metal and is in danger from lava.

Seriously, I don't think the characters are meant to be even a sizable fraction of how strong they would have to be to do the things they do.

edited 9th Dec '17 8:40:06 PM by Arha

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#71307: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:39:49 PM

Nope, that doesn't solve anything. That's just saying they're God tier. We still don't know how they got there, or why U 7 was the last to get there, or why everyone acts so impressed with Goku when he's actually only just recently caught up with the rest of the universes.

Obviously they should have some backstory on what explains their brand of special-ness. We know Hit is a 1000 years old assassin for example, so it's not unbelievable for him to be super powerful and a threat to Goku and Vegeta.

[up]Agree that Toriyama never thought out the realities of what his super powered battles entail. He's never cared about details like that, and it shows.

edited 9th Dec '17 8:42:12 PM by VeryMelon

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#71308: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:40:48 PM

[up][up][up][up] Eh they've handled worse.

Vegeta is just a jerk with too much power. Easy peesy.

[up][up][up] Indeed whats the point of this all then?

edited 9th Dec '17 8:41:06 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#71309: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:40:52 PM

Can we please have Universe 7 no longer have the most numbers, so I can actually worry about their survival even excluding the Plot Armor they have? I don't want it to be Jiren roflstomping many U7 people just to put them on an even playing field. Like maybe Universe 3 knocks out two U7 characters so they look like they might win for a bit?

No, you're just going to have their ace fight Vegeta and Goku? UUUUGHH...yes, I know Goku isn't an Invincible Hero, but he certainly comes off in this arc

Rynnec Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#71310: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:41:19 PM

@Arha: That's pretty much typical with many writers though, especially manga ones. Toriyama may not understand the implications of the feats he's given the characters, but we have the results anyway.

edited 9th Dec '17 8:41:34 PM by Rynnec

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#71311: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:42:28 PM

I wasn't a big fan of introducing all the universes in this tournament either.

But the point is, supposedly, that the tournament isn't everyone vs Goku and Vegeta exclusively. The non-God fighters can be on par with each other, and with the weaker cast members. You just need to stop shoving Goku/Vegeta into every fight, and have characters like Jiren not just sit around doing nothing.

If the God tier fighters are busy with each other (not necessarily fighting, they could be sizing each other up, studying them etc) then the lesser tier characters can serve a point.

But having a bunch of God tier fighters should either mean they tire each other out or Goku's done after like one or two fights.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#71312: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:42:36 PM

@Arha: I liked the part in the manga Vegeta vs Magetta fight where Vegeta tried to pick Magetta up and throw him out of the ring but is unable to lift him since he's so heavy.

Anyway, the best thing to do when it comes to power stuff is not to think about it too hard.

edited 9th Dec '17 8:42:51 PM by Moth13

MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#71313: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:43:18 PM

I mentioned Fanfic Fuel earlier, but I really do feel that this saga is full of interesting character concepts who, unfortunately, don't get much development. Of course, seventy fighters, but that's the problem.

On the plus side, Caulifla is one of my favorite characters introduced in Super.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#71314: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:43:50 PM

[up]x3 If it's DBS Veggie than he's sadly too far above most of the JL's paygrade.

Ion isn't a universal scale fighter? Even disregarding that, I still don't have a good grasp on Superman's scale. One minute he's losing to a guy name Gotham Man the next he's sealing up holes in reality with his heat vision......what?

[up][up] While I love Carrot & Veggie with all my heart & soul its annoying as fuck how fans over-hype them & anime characters in general.

It sure is.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#71315: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:44:10 PM

Obviously they should have some backstory on what explains their brand of special-ness. We know Hit is a 1000 years old assassin for example, so it's not unbelievable for him to be super powerful and a threat to Goku and Vegeta.

I doubt you can do that in the space of one arc with the focus being split so many ways, and still try to achieve the goal of having the weaker characters be active.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#71316: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:45:35 PM

No, you're just going to have their ace fight Vegeta and Goku? UUUUGHH...yes, I know Goku isn't an Invincible Hero, but he certainly comes off in this arc

And Goku's in Blue again. Stamina problems? What stamina problems?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#71317: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:45:50 PM

[up][up][up] Sodam Yat fused with Ion would totally dominate him.

or any character combined with the embodiment of the Emerald Light really.

Also Doomsday would do pretty good especially if he spreads his virus.

edited 9th Dec '17 8:46:01 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Rynnec Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#71318: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:46:15 PM

@agent-trunks: People usually use high-ends when quantifying a characters power level. Most of Superman's consistent high-ends have been in the planet-star system range from what I can gather.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#71319: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:46:24 PM

I doubt you can do that in the space of one arc with the focus being split so many ways, and still try to achieve the goal of having the weaker characters be active.

There's been months of episodes in this arc. Failing to flesh out your major players when you have all this time is a mark against the author's writing ability.

edited 9th Dec '17 8:47:00 PM by VeryMelon

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#71320: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:48:30 PM

@Arha: I liked the part in the manga Vegeta vs Magetta fight where Vegeta tried to pick Magetta up and throw him out of the ring but is unable to lift him since he's so heavy.

Ha. Yeah, that definitely makes sense. That's the kind of thing that makes me feel like the characters aren't much stronger than, like, Naruto or something. Though I expect absolutely no one to agree with me on that.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#71321: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:50:52 PM

[up][up] I don't think the months of episodes were a good idea, but yes it is definitely being used poorly.

agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#71322: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:53:52 PM

No, you're just going to have their ace fight Vegeta and Goku? UUUUGHH...yes, I know Goku isn't an Invincible Hero, but he certainly comes off in this arc

That's what happens you're the biggest shill in the series.

Sodam Yat fused with Ion would totally dominate him.

or any character combined with the embodiment of the Emerald Light really.

I doubt it would be a curb stomp match in favors of the Lanterns.

@agent-trunks: People usually use high-ends when quantifying a characters power level. Most of Superman's consistent high-ends have been in the planet-star system range from what I can gather.

Didn't he fight his pre-crisis version & the multiverse was in distortion because of that? Feel free to correct me on that.

edited 9th Dec '17 8:56:52 PM by agent-trunks

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#71323: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:54:57 PM

[up] Still it be a good fight.

Absorbing an Entity of the Emotional Spectrum is a major power boost.

[up][up] Indeed.

edited 9th Dec '17 8:55:17 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Rynnec Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#71324: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:56:17 PM

[up][up]That may have been an outlier and more to do with general time-space fuckery rather than anything to do with the Supermen's power themselves.

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#71325: Dec 9th 2017 at 8:56:49 PM

Ea; You know, Mosco-Sama, we are lucky all those morons are distracted with Universe 7. Perhaps we can win the Tournament if Jiren keeps being a moron and defeats them, and we win by mayority.

Mosco: *Beeps*

Kampari: Mosco Sama says: then why the fuck is Katopesla fighting off against that midget?

Ea: What? I didn't order him to do so! Katopesla! Stop! Cease, desist! Don't let him distract you!

  • Katopesla is out because of Gamisaras *

Mosco: * Beeps*

Kampari: Mosco-sama says: What the fuck is wrong with you retard?!

Katopesla: I swear, it wasn't my fault!

Ea: Well, fine, now we can only rely on Jiren to... wait, Paparoni? Paparoni! What are you doing?!

Mosco: * Beep*

Kampari: Mosco-sama says: Fuck it! There goes our survival rate! All right, just fuse or whatever you morons!

Katopesla to Maji Kayo: ... Is Mosco sama that vulgar, yo?

Maki Kayo: I think Kampari is just as frustrated, yo.

Well, i'm really, really dissapointed.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.

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