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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#70826: Dec 5th 2017 at 8:43:40 PM

Power-up...a thing characters just get.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#70827: Dec 5th 2017 at 8:44:11 PM

Well, if you're a Saiyan or a Namek... Human characters aren't even allowed to get the Kaioken.

edited 5th Dec '17 8:44:31 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#70828: Dec 5th 2017 at 8:45:19 PM

A power-up won't make humans any more relevant than they've always been.

edited 5th Dec '17 8:45:57 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#70829: Dec 5th 2017 at 8:45:19 PM

Well granted, you can have appropriate buildup for a power up to make it feel "earned", but ultimately they're just plot devices to move things along. They don't have to feel "earned" because being "earned" isn't their purpose.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#70830: Dec 5th 2017 at 8:47:20 PM

I call absolute BS on that. There's a reason everyone loves Goku going SSJ, Gohan going SSJ 2 and the History of Trunks part where Trunks goes SSJ. Because these powerups fit into the arcs they were in.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#70831: Dec 5th 2017 at 8:47:27 PM

Tying a character arc to a power up makes sense when explicitly tied to them like in Digimon or whatever, but otherwise it seems really silly to conflate the two.

I would prefer Gohan's lapse in training to lead to retraining and getting back that way, but the Boo arc doesn't have room to make that work.

So power him up, deal with Boo, and then have him train to preserve his new power-up.

[up] Doesn't mean every form has to have them... and in the context of the greater series, I prefer F. Trunks having Super Saiyan without the emotional moment.

edited 5th Dec '17 8:48:54 PM by Saiga

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#70832: Dec 5th 2017 at 8:47:32 PM

Being earned isn't their purpose...

Definitely not in this series...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#70833: Dec 5th 2017 at 8:50:40 PM

The Ultimate power-up was to bring in the maximum remaining potential in a person.

Its not supposed to be earned, its beneficial cause its quick & cheap which made it invaluable cause they need the quickest solution to defeating Buu.

It was only used on Gohan cause Gohan had the potential to be the strongest being in the entire universe.

edited 5th Dec '17 8:51:20 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#70834: Dec 5th 2017 at 8:51:08 PM

Tying a power up to a character arc is a good way of building things up, but its' not exactly a requirement. The purpose is still the same. Sure, there's some emotional catharsis, but does every single power up need that to be worthwhile?

People liked Super Saiyan 3 and there's no emotional catharsis with that form whatsoever.

edited 5th Dec '17 8:51:44 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#70835: Dec 5th 2017 at 8:51:40 PM

Then why weren't they bringing everyone along to get that powerup?

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#70836: Dec 5th 2017 at 8:52:28 PM

Cause everyone already reached their potential.

At least thats what I think.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#70837: Dec 5th 2017 at 8:52:41 PM

Because they're not the main characters and therefore needed to resolve the plot :V

Gohan getting a power up to beat the villain is important, Krillin getting a power up to make his fans feel good is not.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#70838: Dec 5th 2017 at 8:52:59 PM

Because that would be a waste of screentime and homogenize everything.

Anything after giving Mr. Dorman Power the Dormant Power power-up would be redundant.

In-universe, they used it out of need. It'd make sense to use it for Goten and Trunks but they're still quite young and probably would need to be older to get the same benefit.

edited 5th Dec '17 8:54:17 PM by Saiga

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#70839: Dec 5th 2017 at 8:54:14 PM

Actually it makes sense, most of the cast have been training their whole lives & are full-grown adults so they have already unlocked all their potential.

Gohan was a teen & slacked off so he still had a ton more potential to gain.

[up] Its basically giving every Saiyan Super Saiyan on a wider outer-special level.

edited 5th Dec '17 8:55:12 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#70840: Dec 5th 2017 at 8:57:58 PM

You can easily handwave it as Gohan, being the eldest Saiyan hybrid, has the most untapped potential to be unlocked. Goten and Trunks probably wouldn't benefit as much considering they're both way weaker than Gohan was when he was their age.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#70841: Dec 5th 2017 at 9:01:07 PM

I hate the idea that giving some side characters power ups is somehow homogenising everything, because they're never given *anything*. Krillin doesn't have some power that's on par with Super Saiyan. Same for Tien or Yamcha. Heck, Piccolo's damn powerful and basically does nothing but babysit and train and he's still way behind any Saiyan in potential. These guys needed *something* to maintain at least a hint of relevance. Saiyans get about 5 super saiyan forms, Zenkai boosts and Oozaru. Would it be so much to throw a bone to the non-Saiyans?

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#70842: Dec 5th 2017 at 9:02:06 PM

It's not even a handwave, that's exactly the case.

Even throw in that Goten and Trunks can potentially reach that level naturally.

[up] It's not that giving them any power up would be homogenizing them, it's that giving them the SAME one would.

And also... they don't need anything.

edited 5th Dec '17 9:03:17 PM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#70843: Dec 5th 2017 at 9:02:33 PM

That video two pages ago dissecting the references in Ribrianne was the kind of thing I've always wanted and tried to say, but was unable to properly articulate because of my own inexperience with the Magical Girl genre.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#70844: Dec 5th 2017 at 9:03:20 PM

[up][up][up] Just give em the Android upgrade. tongue

17 & 18 are still human after all.

Just enhanced.

edited 5th Dec '17 9:03:35 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#70845: Dec 5th 2017 at 9:04:23 PM

Yeah, I've always said that was the easiest way to do it. Have Bulma have figured it out after years of research.

Even have her improve the original designs so 18 can get an upgrade.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#70846: Dec 5th 2017 at 9:04:46 PM

Would it be so much to throw a bone to the non-Saiyans?

A better question is why does this matter so much to people. Honestly, what benefit does this serve beyond just "throwing those characters a bone" The non-Saiyan characters get some power up, and then what...they're still weaker than the Saiyans. So what actually is the point beyond just pandering to the people that like that stuff?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#70847: Dec 5th 2017 at 9:05:26 PM

Heck, I would settle for Android upgrades. But at least something, you know? Something to explain why they don't just immediately die by being in the same room as Buu or something.

[up] Krillin, Gohan and especially Yajirobe were all much weaker than Vegeta but they still played an important part in beating him. Maybe you could have another moment like that.

Also, having the Saiyans have all these natural advantages sort of reduces the characters themselves. Sure, Goku's the best martial artist in the universe - but would he still be that if he wasn't a Saiyan?

edited 5th Dec '17 9:07:47 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#70848: Dec 5th 2017 at 9:14:12 PM

It doesn't reduce the character that being a Saiyan is awesome unless you want the character to be something he isn't.

Also you can have a moment where the weaker characters contribute without using the absolute weakest characters or trying to use the same ones.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#70849: Dec 5th 2017 at 9:15:39 PM

[up][up][up]I believe it's still related to bias.

edited 5th Dec '17 9:15:50 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#70850: Dec 5th 2017 at 9:16:16 PM

I just don't like the idea of one species hogging all the powerups. I say do what RPGs do and spread the pros and cons among the races relatively evenly.


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