The saibamen actually bother me in general because they're near brought up again and they offer basically no downsides -just a couple of instant mooks that are still not too weak by the galaxy's standards when used as a group of say, five or six.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Given their strength, it's likely that they're either the dominant species of their own planet or they're created in a lab as bio-weapons. Given that we never see them used again after their first appearance, it's possible that they're hard to get and Nappa had some because Vegeta's a really big deal in Freeza's army.
The crux of practically every Dragonball discussion. Particularly because Word of God is contrasted by Toriyama's Shrug of God attitude.
edited 30th Nov '17 10:51:08 AM by Soble
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!So they have a limited lifecycle then? Otherwise they'd just grow them all strong on one planet.
My main problem is that all this is stuff we have to think of "why aren't they doing X" instead of a quick explanation being given.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"@Moth 13, honestly without trying to be too snarky here, I have to point out how approximations work, and that stating things are approximately the same also implicitly says they are not the same and putting actual numbers to it later doesn't actually change that.
Saying the Saibamen are roughly or around Raditz's power still means they are weaker than him. I'm not really sure what else to say, and knowing how these conversations go, I don't think I'll particularly want to continue this line of discussion with you anyway. It's pointless.
edited 30th Nov '17 11:00:18 AM by LSBK
Roughly around could also imply that they are slightly stronger and either way the fact that Raditz is at best only *slightly* better than plant men that can be grown in a matter of seconds doesn't speak well of him.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"That's only because you started with the underlying assumption that "Raditz sucks" and everything else follow through from that, resulting in other assumptions you shouldn't be making.
Bu I'm not really sure what the point is if people keep explaining why and you just keep repeating the same things without change.
edited 30th Nov '17 11:06:49 AM by LSBK
I'm not starting from the assumption Raditz sucks, I think based on his shockingly poor performance and the fact that plant men are at worst slightly weaker than him means that he sucks.
Your argument, on the other hand, relies not only on a dubious databook but on totally misunderstanding what approximations are.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"![]()
Yamcha was able to fight on par with one of said plant men. If we can't call the Saibamen weak, we can't call Yamcha weak either, and that's a privilege few people in this thread would be willing to part with.
edited 30th Nov '17 11:17:51 AM by TyeDyeWildebeest
No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!What terrible performance? He was wiping the floor with Piccolo and Goku for the most of the fight, and they only really had a chance after Gohan rage boosted out of nowhere to injure him.
No, I think I understand what approximations are and I'll take a databook over fan opinion, sorry.
Your entire argument just seems to rely on the rest of the universe being much stronger than it's actually implied to be.
edited 30th Nov '17 11:19:39 AM by LSBK
Heck, Yamcha drubbed that saibaman and was only killed when it sacrificed itself to do so. Heck, considering how relatively skilled Yamcha is, he could have beaten Raditz at that point.
"Hey Vegeta, looks like their Raditz is still stronger than our Raditz."
edited 30th Nov '17 11:22:11 AM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Sigil, you seem to be ignoring the fact that the strength presented by the likes of Goku, Vegeta and their children is abnormal by Saiyan standards. They're not supposed to be that strong and the fact that they are is noted as being highly unusual.
Raditz is strong by "normal" Saiyan standards, but Vegeta is noted as being a Saiyan elite.
You're basically saying because he's weaker than Vegeta and Nappa, he must be a weakling overall, but his fight with Goku and Piccolo debunks that, something that you keep ignoring to push your point on "Lol Raditz sucks" and the fact you're quoting TFS memes only makes this more obvious.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

Somone link Abridged-Reccome's speech to Vegeta.
I feel it is important in this particular situation.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."