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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#69901: Nov 28th 2017 at 6:35:27 PM

I mean you say that, but Goku and Vegeta are the only ones who have any form beyond Super Saiyan 3...

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#69902: Nov 28th 2017 at 6:36:34 PM

So like, is there any actual logic in that pairing beyond Launch being the only single female heroic character?

To fulfill her womanly obligation in Dragon Ball to become a house wife.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#69903: Nov 28th 2017 at 6:36:47 PM

[up][up][up] Unless Goku was holding back

edited 28th Nov '17 6:36:58 PM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#69904: Nov 28th 2017 at 6:43:37 PM

He went Kaioken. Goku does not use Blue Kaioken when he's holding back. One of the last times he used Blue Kaioken was explicitly because he was told not to hold back, even if using it against Bergamo was overkill.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#69905: Nov 28th 2017 at 6:50:54 PM

But Toshio said he didnt need to use Blue in the recruitment episodes and did so to motivate his opponents.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#69906: Nov 28th 2017 at 6:51:27 PM

Aww, man. I was hoping we could keep talking about the Raditz videos.

My various fanfics.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#69907: Nov 28th 2017 at 6:51:29 PM

There is still the Kaioken thing tbh.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#69909: Nov 28th 2017 at 7:06:42 PM

So basically he's chasing after something he'll never achieve. What a sad life.

And finally we have situation where Vegeta is behind the other characters.

Those guys were chasing after Goku before Vegeta made it cool.[lol]

They gave up much sooner than he did too.

So congrats to Tien, Yamcha and Krillin. The managed to beat Vegeta at something.

One Strip! One Strip!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#69910: Nov 28th 2017 at 7:11:13 PM

[up][up] They're not really "about" anything, they're a collection of Masako's amusingly-inaccurate "What If" videos detailing the saga of "What if Raditz weren't evil." They go into some pretty interesting directions in terms of studying Raditz as a character and, in general, I think I like it more than Break Through the Limit because it doesn't make Raditz the hero and rather violently shove Gohan out of anything resembling a spotlight by stealing his signature moments and passing them onto someone else.

My various fanfics.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#69911: Nov 28th 2017 at 7:17:54 PM

Oh yeah, there's also Gohan begging Goku to use his full power all throughout the fight so that he can test his limits against his father's absolute best, so if Goku actually didn't go all out despite using both Blue and Blue Kaioken, that would make Goku a really shitty dad. Goku being a shitty dad is the Super manga's forte, not the anime's.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#69912: Nov 28th 2017 at 7:21:13 PM

He says he never saw Goten's birth in both versions, and seems to see nothing wrong with it in either.

Goku being a lousy dad has become canon now, and I for one hate it.

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#69913: Nov 28th 2017 at 7:24:33 PM

It is pretty shitty about not feeling bad at missing your kids birth.

Its like he doesn't care.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#69914: Nov 28th 2017 at 7:25:20 PM

Well he was dead for Goten's birth...

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#69915: Nov 28th 2017 at 7:26:42 PM

The retcon for him being absent for Gohan's birth I think was really unnecessary. Like the whole point of that time frame was Goku gave up fighting for a time and actually settled down. With Raditz's arrival to earth being an end to that "normalcy."

edited 28th Nov '17 7:27:49 PM by Lionheart0

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#69916: Nov 28th 2017 at 7:27:07 PM

Goku's never struck me as the kind of guy who feels bad about bad things that happened in the past, or the past in general.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#69917: Nov 28th 2017 at 7:30:47 PM

It's kinda hard to feel bad about things you have no control over...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#69918: Nov 28th 2017 at 7:32:57 PM

I phrased that wrong.

Just a small "Man I wish I could have been there" would be nice.

Though damn they retconned him being there for Gohan? What the Hell was he doing then?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#69919: Nov 28th 2017 at 7:34:36 PM

I not surprised Goku doesn't seem to dwell on the past.

I mean, he barely seems to hold a grudge against people who've done bad things to him.

At most, he acknowledges Frieza is a bad dude, but that's about it. The movie version of ROF had him acting like the fight was nothing more than a friendly sparring match.

Kid Goku held grudges much more than his adult self. When you pissed him off, there was nothing that would stop him from slapping your shit.

edited 28th Nov '17 7:35:29 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#69920: Nov 28th 2017 at 7:41:42 PM

Yeah, there's a different between just missing Goten's birth, which we already knew because he was dead, and missing GOHAN'S BIRTH ALSO. That's the part people are mad about, that was only in the manga. It's also a pattern.

Anime: "Oh, you have a presentation to go to, Gohan? Well, your future's more important than this tournament, so I'm not going to push you on it." Manga: "Gohan's too busy giving a presentation to go to the tournament? That guy..."

Anime: (referring to Trunks feeding Mai a Senzu Bean through a kiss) "Huh, I've never done it like that before!" Vegeta: "What?! But you have a wife!" Goku: "What's that got to do with it?" Manga: "Huh, I've never done that before!" Vegeta: "What?! You've never kissed your wife?!" Goku: "Nope, never!"

Anime: "You killed me, my wife, and child using my own stolen body?! YOU BASTARD!" Manga: "You killed me, my wife, and child using my own stolen body? Well, I guess I'll have to avenge myself, myself?"

Anime: *is hugged by Goten and Chi-Chi as he returns from the future* Manga: *watches as Vegeta and Future Trunks are hugged by Trunks and Bulma*

Anime: "I missed Goten's birth." Manga: "I missed Goten and Gohan's births."

Anime: "Whis, that's cool how you can just teleport a baby out like that!" Manga: "Wow, a baby teleported out! Is that how all births go?" SAYS THE GRANDFATHER

edited 28th Nov '17 7:48:52 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#69921: Nov 28th 2017 at 7:48:25 PM

The difference really isn't that pronounced. Especially in cases like the senzu kiss, where the intent is extremely clear and it's just worded more directly in the anime.

You also missed that Goku brought up Gohan's retirement from fighting without malice from the manga.

Also, Goten and Chichi not being present to hug Goku hardly makes him a worse father.

I do think him not being present for Gohan's birth it a bad retcon but given all the other examples I think it's likely a Toriyama joke.

edited 28th Nov '17 7:49:39 PM by Saiga

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#69922: Nov 28th 2017 at 7:59:17 PM

There are people who defended Goku in the past prior to Super where talked about how Goku was a good guy who cared about his friends and family. I wonder what they make of Goku now? I really starting to have some contempt for this incarnation of Goku as he seems to be going back to his "original" characterization Goku was a massive asshole who cared nobody but himself and has apparently gotten dumber.

"But Goku has always been a selfish monster just like in the manga!!!"

Me:rolleyes

edited 28th Nov '17 8:00:42 PM by GAP

"Mai waifu."
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#69923: Nov 28th 2017 at 8:00:00 PM

I think the manga should get a lot of credit for *not* having that moment where Trunks somehow learns the spirit bomb and creates a reasonably sized one from 100 regular humans.

Also, Goku was absolutely playing with people's lives right from the moment he told Krillin to spare Vegeta. Anything on from that is just him showing that same disregard for safety.

edited 28th Nov '17 8:01:13 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#69924: Nov 28th 2017 at 8:03:54 PM

[up][up] I defended manga Goku. I thought he was selfish, and had some bizzare standards but lacked any real malice. He was definitely whitewashed by the anime and dub.

Super Goku is a shithead. I think Toriyama over corrected on the anime's potrayal, and really flanderized him to make the 'poison' side obvious enough not to be missed. I don't like that decision.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#69925: Nov 28th 2017 at 8:06:33 PM

WHACKY AND CRAZY TORIYAMA

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

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