Super Saiyan is more like one transformation that they just squeeze more and more power out of. There's also Oozaru, but that never got used after the Saiyan Arc. (except in GT)
Now Super Saiyan God was definitely a different step, and as for Ultra Instinct Omen... I don't even know if that's a Saiyan only thing at all.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"That's true. Goku basically has a stack of techniques that he sits on and doesn't share with anyone, that he pulls out occasionally to shake things up. He once even pulled out the *afterimage* technique on Mr. Perfect Cell; that's like, the third move he ever learnt. The Kaioken used alongside SSB was the same.
Super has made an effort to send the characters down different branches of how they end up with the power; Gohan reunlocks his Mystic/Ultimate form, for instance.
edited 27th Nov '17 8:43:44 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"So Goku then?
But listen, as much as it sucks, the other characters aren't going to get any new power-ups. That ship has sailed. Toriyama could have come up with ways to do so, but instead his raised the power bar with each arc while making the gap between Goku and his friends / Rivals wider and wider. Goku is the top dog among his friends, and the best you can do is a fleeting edge when you first meet him if you're lucky, and that won't last as he's slowly but surely render all your techniques and strategy useless as he just gets more and more powerful to the point where it's laughable that you were ever in his league. At best you'll be Vegeta, always behind, even if only by a step, but still behind.
And that's how Toriyama wants it. Goku may not change much as a character, but as a fighter, he's just never gonna stop growing.
One Strip! One Strip!I mean, that's what's *happened*. I think it's to the detriment of the series. I can idly daydream that it might occassionally give some other characters stuff to do (and to give Super credit, it does try that.) What's the harm in wondering "what if this major flaw in a series was not there?"
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Because there's no basically no way to resolve that major flaw (which some would argue isn't even a flaw) without creating an even bigger mess.
Attempts to do so would just come off as incredibly contrived at this point, if they weren't always. Being "subversive" for its own sake isn't a good thing.
edited 27th Nov '17 8:51:02 PM by LSBK
Unless your enjoyment of Dragon Ball came from characters not named Goku, this isn't really true.
Contrary to how many people complain about it, most people don't actually care that the lesser characters got shafted out. Its just a very Vocal Minority in the fanbase that always screams louder and louder with each arc, but that doesn't mean anything really because every fanbase has one of those.
Its' like...I get these are long standing characters that people have come to enjoy over the years, but they've served the purpose that Toriyama wanted them to serve and he saw no further use for them. But then people are like "Fuck that" and call him a hack for not pandering to a specific character's fanbase...
So you'll have to excuse me for not being really sympathetic to that portion of the fanbase. And I say this as someone who wasn't exactly happy with how he treated Gohan near the end of the series.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.I don't mind if he stops using those characters anymore especially since they have all have it pretty good in the end. Yamcha's a successful baseball star, Tien runs his own dojo, & Krillen's a happily married successful cop. All of them have happy endings.
I'd like for more people to join the main cast like Hit being Goku's new main rival. Its why I hope the universes are gonna get merged in the end so people like Hit & the U6 Saiyan's can come over whenever.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."Everyone's got their habits. I think we've long since come to understand that. Someone else pointed out that we take that subversive line a bit too literally, and I realize that's likely true.
Gohan, Goten and Trunks show that even that's not a sure thing.
I can see, that, but it's really painful. I mean, looking at it in hindsight, these guys never really had any role beyond strong rival for Goku and once they were done whatever arc they had (if they were lucky enough to have one) that's it. And up until Piccolo was introduced, many of them had arcs that rarely lasted beyond the story they were introduced in, after which, they were regulated to brick jokes, running gags and being punching bags to show off how great Goku was again. Maybe I'll stretching it—and you can call me full of shit if you believe so—but I'd argue they were more tools for Goku's growth than characters in their own right.
Right. That is bullshit, and they shouldn't do that.
[[quoteblock]]So you'll have to excuse me for not being really sympathetic to that portion of the fanbase. And I say this as someone who wasn't exactly happy with how he treated Gohan near the end of the series.
Eh. You can understand someone's position and still think they are a piece of crap.
Except for me. You should totally agree with everything I say.
One Strip! One Strip!I would care less about large sections of the cast being useless if they weren't kept around so much. Seriously, Tien, Chaotzu and Yamcha were useless as soon as the Saiyan Saga started; yet they still turn up again and again to do absolutely nothing (aside from Tien's Kikoho spam on SP Cell which really didn't achieve anything in the long term). Krillin is similarly always useless in the Freeza saga and onwards (though he does ignite Goku's rage via dying so there's that).
Why have these cast members even turn up again if they're just going to be so irrelevant? It would be like having the Ox King follow everyone around, maybe die once or twice. At least Krillin's the buttmonkey and Piccolo's the strategist (even if his strategies are usually worth nothing). Tien, Chaotzu and Yamcha are just dead weight.
I tend to not like it when characters that end up just as empty flab on a cast. Either have them do something, or just have them leave the story.
edited 27th Nov '17 10:05:00 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"It's not that they're not fighting or winning or whatever. Bulma never did any of that and I always considered her massively valuable throughout DB (well, except in the Freeza saga). It's that they serve literally no story purpose in Z except people to be revived. They're not doing *anything*. At least Master Roshi is retired.
edited 27th Nov '17 10:08:26 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"![]()
And I admit, that's on them (and on me).
The thing is...they don't do other things with them. Except have them fail to fight off the big bad to show how powerful they are, and drive home (once again) that all the heroes can do is wait for Goku to save them.
I mean, Tien's got his own school now. It'd be nice to see more of that. Or what does Krillin do on an average day as a cop.
Maybe we can learn about where Yamcha got his scars, or how he even learned Martial Arts (he's the only character with no known teacher).
That ain't gonna happen though. That's not their job.
edited 27th Nov '17 10:09:44 PM by HandsomeRob
One Strip! One Strip!Heck, they're so beaten down by the Cell Saga they can't even do that anymore. Does anyone find Gero *threatening* when he kills Yamcha? He might have well as just stabbed a puppy. Killing Yamcha tells us absolutely zilch about anyone who does it.
For a character to job effectively they need to have some standard of power that beating them is impressive but even before Super Saiyan changed the game the humans were well, well behind Goku.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

It's kinda weird that Saiyans have so many transformations.