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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#68976: Nov 19th 2017 at 1:44:37 PM

[up][up][up]Fusion = lack of pun

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#68977: Nov 19th 2017 at 1:46:06 PM

Mmm.

When we need someone to be beaten so that they can show how strong the latest villain is, those two will be back.tongue

That's Vegeta's job. I'd rather not have the two of them come back so they can job to Baby-possessed Hirudegarn in the next arc, thank you.

that's the highest honor she could have gotten going against Goku.

Oh come on, even Freeza knocked his b'tch-ass out and he was the villain from like 6-8 arcs ago. That was far from the highest honor Kefla could've gotten. note 

Though Goku kicked some major tail & proved ounce again he's the biggest badass in the room so its alright. tongue

Jiren would disagree.

Not verbally, but you would totally get that from the way his eyes would move.

edited 19th Nov '17 1:59:58 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#68978: Nov 19th 2017 at 1:47:40 PM

Contrary to maybe 2/3 of the Western audience, I actually like Caulifa and Kale every time they're on screen, and Kefla was like... the culmination of that. All of Caulifa's ridiculous power gains and Kale's growing confidence combined into one.

Do I even want to know where these hate-filled people are? Because I keep hearing about how everyone hates the Saiya-girls but I haven't seen any of it.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#68979: Nov 19th 2017 at 1:47:56 PM

Oh don't worry. Vegeta will too.

It's not a role that's limited to one person.

I mean, why do you think the other characters are even there?tongue

They get all the character development (or lose it). Goku saves the day...except when he doesn't.

You never know what you're getting with this series.

One Strip! One Strip!
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#68980: Nov 19th 2017 at 1:49:10 PM

Yeah I don't think she went down like a punk at all. She fought against a guy with perfect dodge ability who stood up to Jiren, gave a fantastic showing with some of the coolest attacks ever, and made him resort to an all-or-nothing final blow. I get being disappointed they won't be part of the tourney any more, but I can't think of a better way for them to go.

...what was her name a pun of, anyway?

It's supposed to Kale + Caulifla = Kafla, but some translation weirdness left it as Kefla.

I'm a bit disappointed Frieza never followed up on his threat to torture the girls.

Egh. Come on dude.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#68981: Nov 19th 2017 at 1:49:58 PM

There are people who dislike Caulifa and Kale purely for how powerful they are, but you don't seen them on places like here because they'd have made their presence know already. The truth is any hate really just comes from a vocal minority upset that characters they don't view as interesting even have fans. Most of the internet is neutral on them.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#68982: Nov 19th 2017 at 1:53:10 PM

[up][up] Okay torture was the wrong word.

I meant fight, I mean it would have been interesting considering his hatred of Saiyans & the girls would most likely be pissed he took out Cabba in such an underhanded way.

edited 19th Nov '17 1:53:30 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68983: Nov 19th 2017 at 2:00:19 PM

I'd be fine with Freeza vs Kafla if Kafla had kicked his ass and eliminated him as revenge for Cabba.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68984: Nov 19th 2017 at 2:15:22 PM

How exactly did Kafla have the fight in the bag? Unless you mean before UI, in which case, big whoop.

And yeah, making her stronger than Goku was vs Jiren was definitely the thing that felt most like shilling.

Edit: as for Goku having another form stronger than God, that was already a thing when he fought Jiren. It has nothing to do with this fight.

edited 19th Nov '17 2:17:08 PM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68985: Nov 19th 2017 at 2:19:14 PM

To be fair, Piccolo only says that she's stronger than Goku was before, which doesn't necessarily mean Goku using Ultra Instinct against Jiren. He could've been referring to Kaioken x 20 Blue Goku, or whatever level of Ultra Instinct Goku was using before he started powering up with the aura pillar.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#68986: Nov 19th 2017 at 2:21:25 PM

How exactly did Kafla have the fight in the bag? Unless you mean before UI, in which case, big whoop.

Yes. A very big whoop.

as for Goku having another form stronger than God, that was already a thing when he fought Jiren. It has nothing to do with this fight.

It has everything to do with my reaction to the fight.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68987: Nov 19th 2017 at 2:28:09 PM

No, it really isn't. Goku Blue worfs all over the place, and we don't even know if he used 20x against her.

But even then... so what? What does it matter that she beat a weaker form if him? It's not like she 'deserves' a win. No-one does.

As for your reaction... that's on you.

Maybe if God hadn't been worfed to begin with we wouldn't need this.

edited 19th Nov '17 2:28:49 PM by Saiga

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#68988: Nov 19th 2017 at 2:30:46 PM

He's also in an exhausted state so the fight before UI was Kefla trying to beat up a tired, old man. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68989: Nov 19th 2017 at 2:34:29 PM

The god forms being worfed at least makes Ultra Instinct better by contrast at least

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#68990: Nov 19th 2017 at 2:38:11 PM

No, it really isn't.

It is the biggest of whoops.

Goku Blue worfs all over the place, and we don't even know if he used 20x against her.

I'm more comfortable with Super Saiyan Blue jobbing because that's literally the first thing it did.

But even then... so what? What does it matter that she beat a weaker form if him It's not like she 'deserves' a win. No-one does.

Because it's disappointing.

As for your reaction... that's on you.

I'm aware that's how reactions work.

Maybe if God hadn't been worfed to begin with we wouldn't need this.

Maybe so. Doesn't somehow lessen what happens later.

edited 19th Nov '17 2:47:28 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#68991: Nov 19th 2017 at 2:42:44 PM

[up] So wait your upset Goku won right?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#68992: Nov 19th 2017 at 2:55:21 PM

Not really, no. I'm not in the "Goku is a terrible person and should never win any fight ever," camp.

I'm upset that she lost because Goku suddenly reactivated Ultra Instinct and kept upgrading it mid-fight. That was balls. And then it ends with Goku using his tried-and-true Kamehameha for the 17th time this arc.

edited 19th Nov '17 3:33:50 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68993: Nov 19th 2017 at 3:02:32 PM

It was a really cool Kamehameha tho.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#68994: Nov 19th 2017 at 3:04:27 PM

People made something about moving while doing it...without mentioning how he did?

That should happen more often.

edited 19th Nov '17 3:06:12 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#68995: Nov 19th 2017 at 3:04:48 PM

Why should her SS2 be that strong? Goku seemed to match Jiren with UI (Jiren being stronger than at least one of the GoDs). How ridiculous do you think Kefla is to surpass that without at least the divine forms?

agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#68996: Nov 19th 2017 at 3:06:04 PM

[up][up][up]

Probably the coolest Kame wave yet.

[up]

Neither is Golden Freeza, SSJ Rage F-Trunks or Jiren (that we know of) for that matter. We already saw Kale's SSJ Berserk form tanking a SSB Kame wave.

So I'm not seeing why this fight was a waste of time here. We have a God scale battle & people say there's too much focus on this fight? I guess people really want to see U4 bugs that badly.

@68975 Very Melon

I can't respect that kind of thinking. It's one thing to angry about power levels, but it's another when it has to do with characters. That's the kind of stereotype I'm done being associate with as a DBZ fan.

edited 19th Nov '17 3:08:54 PM by agent-trunks

XMenMutant22 The Feline Follies of Felix the Cat Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#68997: Nov 19th 2017 at 3:12:02 PM

Suddenly that Saiyan hype video Toei put out a few months makes sense for this little romp. A great conclusion to this fight, and a great send-off to the Saiyan Girls. note 

  • Gotta give it to Goku though, he never stops reinventing Roshi's wheel. That Toyko Drift Kamehameha/Grindmehameha, complete with its choreography, needs to be added as a beam-struggle counter in a future game.

  • Caulifla's Doctor Claw impression made me laugh, with Cabba cutting her off before Frost's mistake reemerges. It was nice contrast (both to her earlier self and Caulifla) to see Kale being so graceful about her defeat, even confronting Champa and Fuwa personally about it.

  • Speaking of Fuwa, his complete 180 switch into becoming madly engrossed in the fight was hilarious. Justifiably so, this is all his idea.

  • Seeing as this arc is going to last for quite a while, I'm hesitant to say that the teased fights aren't going to come around again (like Toppo vs Vegeta). The arc's gonna have to finish first before making such calls.

  • That being said, while I enjoyed all 4 or so episodes of this fight, reducing them to 2.5 episodes would have been better. Excluding some production scheduling linguistics:
     A Possible Revision 
  • Episode 113 becomes a composite of the actual 113 and 114 (with that sweet Yuya Takahashi supervision). The first half is an abridged version of Goku vs Caulifla, with both Saiyans slowly adapting to the situation like in the original. Once Goku and Caulifla decide to Kale into the picture, rather than starting in her controlled form, Kale goes Berserk, leading to the second half.
    Likewise, the second half is an abridged version of 114, complete with Kale finally mastering the form note , the superior display of teamwork attacks (compared to 113), and Godku wising up. The episode similarily with Godku almost ringing them, only for the Delinquents to fuse into Kefla with a sucker-punch.

  • Episode 114's first half is an abridged 115. It begins with Beerus calling foul before Champa retorts with his flashback meeting with the Saiyan Trio. While Kefla holds her own against the option-exhausting Godku, a quick rundown of the universes declining the opportunity (spliced with Beerus and Universe 2's failed attempts) is shown. Godku fails, Ultra Instinct's here.
    The second half is Episode 116 with a heavy reduction of the peanut gallery and onlooking fighters (minus Whis's analysis, which could be overlaid over the UI Goku and Kefla fight). Negating some filler dodging scenes and shortening the power-up sequence of both fighters, everything else is fine.

  • I would have also removed any references to competing fights, seeing as they amounted to nothing much in the end, and will probably be finished another time.

  • With that being said, easier said than done considering the aforementioned production scheduling for this show.

     Something about Character Shilling? 
I don't know, half of the time I'm taking it as hyperbole from the writers and in-universe just to hype a situation more so than need. Fusions are broken as is and needed her to be powerful enough to trigger Ultra Instinct. Goku, minus his questionable stamina issues, only got grazed twice.

We've had past scenes where Roshi and Quitela's crew considering Ganos' Gathering Steam ability to be Dragon Ball Multiverse's Broly levels of being potentially dangerous, to the point where Roshi worried about Goku not being able to swat him like before. Later we have that "stronger than time" statement applied to Jiren.

edited 19th Nov '17 3:28:35 PM by XMenMutant22

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#68998: Nov 19th 2017 at 3:16:15 PM

It was a really cool Kamehameha tho.

Yeah. I'm usually the first person to complain about how boring Goku's constant Kamehamema usage is, but this one was done really well.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#68999: Nov 19th 2017 at 3:22:11 PM

I can't respect that kind of thinking. It's one thing to angry about power levels, but it's another when it has to do with characters. That's the kind of stereotype I'm done being associate with as a DBZ fan.

Some fans are pretty determined to keep the stereotype strong.

agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#69000: Nov 19th 2017 at 3:29:35 PM

@68991 X Men Mutant 22

Kefla verus Freeza could have been just as cool, but parts of the internet kind of ruined it by making it Videl vs Spopovich 2.0 just to get their "relief".

What else new in the DBZ community?


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