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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68576: Nov 12th 2017 at 9:31:33 PM

My point is that it seems odd that Freeza was the undisputed most powerful mortal in all of Universe 7 for so long when Universe's 2, 3, 4, 6, 9, 10, and 11 would all produce at least 10 fighters who are most likely stronger than him only 20 years later.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#68577: Nov 12th 2017 at 9:35:14 PM

Yeah I said this on the Bleach thread & I'll say it again here.

Power Level's aren't fun anymore.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#68578: Nov 12th 2017 at 9:37:40 PM

I'm just gonna take a stab in the dark & say most of the are solar system buster with the weakest ones being a star scale, for my own sake of understanding power scaling.

Still pretty dumb that each universe didn't have their own god tier fighter. You could argue that it's makes that tier more sacred but the consequences is that the vast majority of the participants become forgettable as the result.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#68579: Nov 12th 2017 at 9:40:23 PM

[up][up][up]

The bad guys always seem to have the strongest fighter under their wings, while being the strongest themselves.

That way, when Goku beats them up, it's more impressive.

One Strip! One Strip!
RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#68580: Nov 12th 2017 at 9:40:27 PM

On a prior comment: if the World of Void follows time the same way it does in the 12 universes, and people can still move in it meaning there's space, how can they really say it is outside space and time? All it really is is an empty universe.

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#68581: Nov 12th 2017 at 9:41:50 PM

Yeah, consider what you are saying. Now, I'll concede, the present timeline androids might not actually be better martial artists than the boys. Very plausible.

But yes, there are battle powers higher than Freeza among mortals in the universe. Even if you think Yakkon, the mythical monster in the edge of the universe in the world of darkness, was just a fluke or something, the demon king Dabra(Dabura?) was undeniably stronger than Freeza. And you know what, most people in universe seven had no idea he existed, or that Majin Buu existed.

Consider the androids. All besides maybe #8 are stronger than Freeza on Namek, yet the universe at large simply never got to learn about them because they were defeated before their reputation could spread beyond Earth. That's it. A Kaioshin missed Cell, a Kaioshin that knew about both Yakkon and Dabura missed a terrifying biological chimera fucking with the timeline and openly stating its desire to destroy the universe. Now to be fair, that's because that Kaioshin was dealing with Majin Buu and the wizard that would be Buu's master, and the servants of that wizard, which included the mythical shadow planet criptid monster and the demon world king, but dammit, if you can miss Cell on a planet that only successfully built an interplanetary spaceship after said technology literally fell on it, then that opens the possibilities for similar incidents on other planets, particularly those which are generally more advanced than Earth. Those that have been studying much wider samples of alien biology in much more detail, for much longer than Earth...

And yes, Freeza was the most widely feared being in the universe. He's also been dead for over a decade. In that time both Abo and Kado, two of his stronger but not quite Vegeta/Ginyu level soldiers, have become just as powerful as their former boss was on Namek. That they're no threat to the super saiyans shouldn't distract from the point super saiyans were hardly the only creatures capable of reaching Freeza's power level. There was also the Namek that was before Kami and Piccolo split. Like it or not, there was another former Freeza soldier in Revival Of F able to give Kami merged Piccolo a good fight, which makes him much stronger than Freeza was on Namek-and the super retelling had another soldier even stronger than that one(yeah, it was stupid, but might as well make the best of it). In spite of this, Freeza's soldiers have been losing against the uprisings against his empire during those ten or so years. Clearly the rebels have some way of fighting back, so why not have a few fighters who have gained great power through a decade or more of combat be a key to their success?

Really the demon world is an infinite well of possibilities alone. If Freeza's fall brought turmoil, furthermore if Freeza's power level could be equaled, then Dabura should be another can of worms entirely. Just what kind of battles are being waged in his absence? Just how powerful have the shadow world residents gotten as a result of it? Will they be affected by the erasure of universe seven? Will they risk it? Just one demon says "alright" to joining universe seven and you're good. The only reason that wasn't my go to "new fighter" is because Dragon Ball Online and Dragon Ball Xenoverse have already beat that horse, I'm not trying to beat it to death just yet. The power vacuum left by Freeza and general possibilities of universe seven seem more interesting to me in this case.

Or they would. Obviously the Krillen-Tien-Roshi ship has sailed, logically by power level Goten and Trunks and a vacancy would be better than all three, yes, Buu would have been nice, but since those things are not happening anymore than my points I don't see the problem in making them. Things stronger than Freeza have popped up before. The androids were part of an army's life work that in its final two decades became a vengeance project against the man who destroyed that army and wouldn't stop getting stronger, but lets say Cell wins and starts instant transmissioning across space as planned. From the average bystander's perspective, this overpowering omnicidal monster so much stronger than the dread tyrant Freeza it's not even funny just appeared out of nowhere.

And Buu, who is stronger than Cell, has existed far longer than the entire android project. Has comeson existed longer or shorter than the androids? Really doesn't matter. What about Yakkon, or Dabra? Again, doesn't matter. Abo and Kado haven't been that strong long, Shisami even less. Whether they have been stronger than an enemy we used to think of as hot shit for a good while or only recently got uber powerful doesn't matter. There is always room for a stronger fighter in Dragon Ball. Exhibit A: Tao Pai Pai. Exhibit B: Yajirobe. Seriously, there's a random wandering ronin who is as strong as Goku, who unambiguously surpassed strongest man in the world Roshi. He doesn't even have the build up of being some returned dread demon or it's spawn. Just a fat kid with a sword, he's really strong, now watch these fights!

edited 12th Nov '17 10:06:59 PM by IndirectActiveTransport

Buldogue's lawyer
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#68582: Nov 12th 2017 at 9:42:19 PM

I would've been amused if, someone else in Universe 7, so far that sensing their power would be difficult if you didn't know to look for it, there was a character having parallel adventures to Goku - like a bizarro version of the main cast with journeys that are oddly similar and who likewise gained the power to challenge the gods thanks to their trials. They and Goku would meet, and they could do a "I've never heard of you" gag. Etc.

But they had the opportunity to introduce something like that with Monaka, and they didn't. So doing so for the Tournament of Power wouldn't have worked at all.

DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#68583: Nov 12th 2017 at 9:43:44 PM

On a prior comment: if the World of Void follows time the same way it does in the 12 universes, and people can still move in it meaning there's space, how can they really say it is outside space and time? All it really is is an empty universe.

Perhaps El Padre Grande created a bubble of space-time within the Void in which the tournament is taking place.

The real purpose of it being in the Void is simply as neutral territory, giving no universe a perceived "home field advantage".

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68584: Nov 12th 2017 at 9:47:03 PM

So far, only U10 and U9 have been confirmed to have fighters not on the godly tiers and they had Obuni, who was pretty strong, and Bergamo, who could grow pretty strong.

U2 has Ribrianne, among other fighters whom we haven't seen fight yet.

U3's had Maji=Kayo so far, as well as the theorized fusion mecha (there has to be some source to Ea's confidence).

U4 has the Bugs, whom Quitela is REALLY confident in.

U6 has Hit and Kafla.

U11 has Dyspo, Toppo, Jiren, and maybe Kahseral, though he'd be really low level in the godly tiers.

edited 12th Nov '17 9:53:13 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#68585: Nov 12th 2017 at 10:11:57 PM

[up]

U2= She has yet to do anything that makes her a threat.

U3= Really should hurry up & form the Megazord already

U4= Those bugs are just going to hassle to go through when they actually make their debut.

U6= Actually imposing characters, still disappointed that Hit had to be eliminated this soon. I wish he fought Vegeta again.

U9= So much for Bergamo

U10= All things considered Olibu's gimmick was pretty cool. Can't say that about the rest of the fighters. Now where am I going to get my discount Street Fighter characters? Goku? Wait a minute....

U11= 17 & 18 didn't have that much trouble fighting against him so I can't imagine he being all that strong. Weak by DBZ standard anyways.

edited 12th Nov '17 10:24:35 PM by agent-trunks

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#68586: Nov 12th 2017 at 10:13:20 PM

Even in literal last place, Quitela still thinks those bugs can give him the win. I'm really wondering what his strategy is here.

agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#68587: Nov 12th 2017 at 10:22:40 PM

Someone on Reddit believes that they will function like parasites. While that is unique & I still feel like that leaves a lot to desire. IMO, of course. I'm sure when they actually display it most people will like it.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68588: Nov 12th 2017 at 10:32:32 PM

[up][up][up]17, at least, is WAY stronger than he was in Dragon Ball Z.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68589: Nov 12th 2017 at 10:52:59 PM

@Indirect Dabra is from Makai, which isn't counted as part of the mortal realm (Kaioshin even notes that if Goku et al are the strongest of their universe, he is the strongest of his).

Yakon is likely from Makai as well, since he is called a Majuu.

The other characters have actual backstory. Even if you could say 'they were just unknown/popped up quickly' that's incredibly lazy and something that was already done to death with existing characters. Toriyama took great pains to explain why people stronger than Freeza could pop up, just tossing that out would be lazy and devalue the existing characters. And then it becomes something with no limit, there's no reason to stop churning out new threats with weak justification that just happen to follow the escalation of the series.

agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#68590: Nov 12th 2017 at 11:33:23 PM

[up][up]

Yes, but 17 didn't have that much trouble avoiding him either.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68591: Nov 12th 2017 at 11:55:34 PM

That, combined with him (and his whole team) getting overpowered by a combo of Super Saiyan Berserk Kale and SS2 Caulifla, is why I'd say Kahseral is probably really low on the godly tiers, if he's even there at all.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#68592: Nov 13th 2017 at 12:09:13 AM

And that's assuming everybody is in the godly tiers. Because you assume Toei has consistency in terms of power levels, and that's wishful thinking.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68593: Nov 13th 2017 at 12:57:58 AM

I didn't say that. Just because Toei plays fast and loose with Power Levels doesn't mean my interpretation of the series has to. I happen to like consistency.

agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#68594: Nov 13th 2017 at 3:35:30 AM

[up]

Yeah, but Toei & Toriyama tends not really care, so in the end why should I care about power levels if it's going to be arbitrary?

edited 13th Nov '17 3:36:26 AM by agent-trunks

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#68595: Nov 13th 2017 at 4:03:41 AM

The one who tries the most to present a consistent work is Toyotaro anyway. And he is the guy Toriyama has said to know more about Dragon Ball than himself, after all...

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#68596: Nov 13th 2017 at 5:11:49 AM

I laugh so hard if after all the build up, the U4 bugs will be a hassle for 1-2 episode and then get defeated.

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#68597: Nov 13th 2017 at 6:31:59 AM

[up] It would even funnier of that if it didn't happen to every fighter in this show....

edited 13th Nov '17 6:32:25 AM by GAP

"Mai waifu."
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#68598: Nov 13th 2017 at 9:14:01 AM

Yeah, like that one guy that got bodied by Cabba. Cabba.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68599: Nov 13th 2017 at 11:04:14 AM

You guys are unpleasable. Here you are, complaining that the fights in this tournament are too short and don't last any longer than 1-2 episodes, meanwhile Goku is locked in a 4 episode long battle with the U6 Saiyan girls. A battle that you guys complained was dragging on too long!

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#68600: Nov 13th 2017 at 11:15:46 AM

Its about trying to hit that sweet spot.

The spot where no one gets too much focus or too little focus.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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