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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#68551: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:04:41 PM

Well that's incredibly convenient.

If that's how it goes, I guess I gotta accept it, but Toriyama sure jumped to that point pretty fast.

One Strip! One Strip!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#68552: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:05:40 PM

@Hobgoblin: I'm rather fond of that moment and was kinda disappointed that the Abridged version didn't make any mention of him knowing IT.

My theory was always that the Big Gete Star somehow picked up how to do Instant Transmission (or some similar, short-range teleportation technique) in its travels, and that's how it's able to remotely repair Metal Cooler's body; by teleporting in new materials.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68553: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:06:59 PM

[up][up]I think it works. Honestly, once Goku had the idea, it was pretty quick for him and Gohan to achieve, and it is the kind of thing that could be done by naturally using the form.

edited 12th Nov '17 8:07:17 PM by Saiga

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#68554: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:08:42 PM

Is it better than the back tingly method? tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#68555: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:09:18 PM

[up][up]

Well, I suppose I could see them thinking that fighting as Super Saiyans would be cool and all.

edited 12th Nov '17 8:09:37 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68556: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:13:55 PM

[up][up] Yes. I'm okay with that being a thing based on chakras and all, but the U 7 Saiyans should have known avout it if that was the case.

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#68557: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:16:15 PM

I'm rather fond of that moment and was kinda disappointed that the Abridged version didn't make any mention of him knowing IT.

Huh. In hindsight, it did not. surprised

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#68558: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:20:10 PM

There's no real reason for him knowing it...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68559: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:21:00 PM

Goku did confirm that a tense concentration of Ki in your back is kind of what Super Saiyan feels like back when Caulifla first grilled him about Super Saiyan 2.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68560: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:22:08 PM

And yet they didnt bring that up when trying to teach other people before

Is retcon

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68561: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:24:28 PM

The only other person whom Goku has ever had to teach Super Saiyan to is Gohan, and the manga never actually shows what the circumstances behind him unlocking it are.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#68562: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:26:07 PM

Incredible emotion + Back Tense

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68563: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:32:24 PM

[up][up] we see him transform on screen, and Goku advising him on how.

Plus there's Vegeta with Cabba.

edited 12th Nov '17 8:32:44 PM by Saiga

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#68564: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:33:42 PM

With the back thing never mentioned.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#68565: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:37:58 PM

The difference in power between the humans and the saiyan kids is negligible, if the two "humans" you're talking about are the cyborg Androids #s17 and 18. Goten and Trunks can fuse, and that's a pretty big advantage, but the Android's greater skill, maturity, stamina and lack of need to transform might just be decent enough arguments to choose them over the kids. And thematically, it's a better choice. Too many saiyans as is.

Krillen? Tien? Roshi? No, no and hell no. Ten warriors, Goku(duh), Vegeta, Gohan, Majin Buu, Piccolo(top five), Android 17, Android 18, Chibi Trunks, Goten...then Krillen.

If you really want to keep Goten and Trunks out, and thematically I can fully understand why the fans and the creators themselves wouldn't want the saiyan brats in, well, damn, the universe is on the line, multiple universes in fact, because we really can't trust anyone else to do the right thing with the super dragon balls...so, um, dragon balls. You have two sets of dragon balls, four methods of faster than light travel(space ships, instant transmission, instantaneous movement/kai travel and Whis) and an entire universe at stake. Abo and Kado. Two warriors who rivaled Vegeta and The Ginyu Force who grew to become as powerful as Freeza. Yakkon, the shrouded in myth monster living at the "edge" of the universe on a planet with hardly any light, stronger than Freeza, strong enough to force Goku to use Super Saiyan 2. Dabura, the king of the demon world which is a shadow to universe 7 as the characters know it, also stronger than Freeza, as strong as Cell. Majin Buu, hidden away, sealed and sleeping, stronger than Freeza, stronger than Cell, as strong as the Daikaioshin/Grand Supreme Kai. Comeson, Murder Water Super Weapon Gone Horribly Wrong, able to produce a fighter stronger than Buu, equal to god powered Vegeta. Surely there is another such fighter out there, somewhere.

Surely with all the resources available the representatives of universe seven can find one fighter better than the saiyan kids as individuals in forty hours. Whis can reach any point in the universe, afterlife included, in thirty minutes. It should take them one day, tops. And yeah, universe at stake convinces fortune teller crone Baba to bring one fighter back from the dead! Who do we know? Well, Cell would be great, but he died wanting to destroy the universe. That leaves Dabura and Freeza as the most viable choices. Better the devil you know than the one you don't.

So, one new fighter found in previously uncharted depths of universe seven, at least as strong as super 3 Gotenks without the need to fuse or transform, ready to fight for the continued existence of all it has ever known. Then Baba ticket Freeza. Krillen is the sole human representative over the more powerful Goten or Trunks just to appease 18, who thinks it's all about money or something, because Goten and Trunks can't decide which one it will be between them, because their mothers are making them do homework. It's still bullshit, but not as much bullshit. Hell, new figter doesn't even have to be that unknown. We already know of four mutants in Freeza's army who were able to gain power equal to or surpassing that of Freeza on Namek. We also know that despite this, Freeza's army were losing to the uprisings against his empire. There should be at least one viable fighter for universe seven being forged from that very conflict.

We keep Buu, get Freeza, and let Toriyama or someone with his approval go crazy with character designs, characterization and ridiculous martial arts/ki techniques one more time. You can even "kill'' the new fighter if fans don't take to it. If it is one of those fighting against Freeza's empire you can make it extra tragic by having it give up fighting altogether after the war is won, only to be forced back into combat by circumstances beyond its control alongside the very tyrant it hated so much. Its sacrifice ultimately helps universe seven survive because of the tournament's no kill rule. The regular dragon balls aren't powerful enough to bring it back because it died in the world of void and though the super dragon balls could, there are simply more important things to be done with them.

Roshi's got enough "Super" focus, I doubt his fans would cry, and Tien can get his focus some other way, an episode akin to Yamucha with baseball and Krillen's retraining. He and Goku are both farmers at this point and Goku has learned to make good money off of it. Run them together off that, switch focus to Tien for awhile, and there you go. He doesn't need to be in the universe survival fight when there is evidence of many better choices.

edited 12th Nov '17 8:42:23 PM by IndirectActiveTransport

Buldogue's lawyer
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68566: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:47:20 PM

If there was someone in the universe on Super Gotenks' level without the need to transform or fuse, they'd use that.

We know that Freeza was the strongest in the universe, it would be incredibly lazy to introduce someone that powerful as just having existed out there.

Also, the Androids weren't even martial artists. They also don't have a great deal of experience either, since they were activated in the Android arc, had a couple of fights and then got absorbed.

So it's weird to assume they have a skill advantage over those raised by martial artists and specifically noted to be taught some of the words.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#68567: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:52:13 PM

Of course, even full power Namek Frieza would get absolutely destroyed in this tournament. Are we really supposed to believe he took such a sledgehammer to U7 that nowhere apart from Earth produced anyone stronger than him in almost twenty years?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68568: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:54:43 PM

Yes. Powers like his are supposed to be rare. The tournament is just massive power creep so that anyone can be a challenge.

The narrative really stops working if you're just going to ignore Freeza's position and have a bunch of unknown powers far greater than him in U 7 with no justification for their powers.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#68569: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:54:57 PM

[up][up]

Yes. Frieza is stated to have had complete and utter control over the universe. Everyone strong either joined him or got Roflstomped by him and his army.

The only ones trying to fight him were the Galactic Patrol, and they couldn't do jack, probably because Frieza murdered anyone who was strong enough to want to join them instead of him.

edited 12th Nov '17 8:55:09 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#68570: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:59:00 PM

Oh I absolutely understand why nobody during Frieza's reign was stronger than him until Goku. I just feel like it'd be believable if somebody on some non-Earth planet level-ground past him since, again, almost twenty years have passed since the PTO's fall.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68571: Nov 12th 2017 at 9:06:53 PM

It's not about Freeza's reign, though. That level of power just didn't occur except in incredibly exceptional, uncontrollable circumstances - freaks of nature, basically.

It isn't a matter of someone just level grinding without Freeza to interfere.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68572: Nov 12th 2017 at 9:18:39 PM

The weakest person in this tournament, power level-wise, is probably either Caway or Botamo, either of which could very well still be stronger than Freeza back when he was the strongest in U7.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#68573: Nov 12th 2017 at 9:20:54 PM

...Why those two? We didn't even see Sorrel or Dr. Rota battle, for all we know they're weaker.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68574: Nov 12th 2017 at 9:26:30 PM

Which is why I'm not going to assume anything about how strong or not they are. Caway and Botamo have the worst strength feats anyone has shown so far, being completely overpowered by skinny Roshi and base Goku back in the U6 tournament, respectively.

edited 12th Nov '17 9:27:08 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

agent-trunks IHE from Every-where, but there Since: Apr, 2015
IHE
#68575: Nov 12th 2017 at 9:28:30 PM

Good God, more power level debates, I guess it wouldn't a DBZ thread without it.


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