Goten and Trunks being too experienced/weak sounds like something fans have always wanted to be true just because them being Super Saiyans always pissed people off, and so now people just expect it despite it never really being a thing.
It's the same way people like to think that they couldn't really beat 18 in the tournament, or even Frieza.
edited 12th Nov '17 7:12:02 PM by LSBK
Though he managed to get even weaker again by the time of Super, even though it should have only been a few months.
One Strip! One Strip!That depends on how much time passed between the events of BOG and the opening of Resurrection F. We know it was enough time for Pan to be born, and then another 4 months passed after Frieza was revived during which he was training.
Depending on how long it was, he somehow got even weaker than the gap between Cell and Buu in a much shorter period of time.
One Strip! One Strip!They were very weak against 18 as ssj is just a multiplier and they didn't really train before entering the time chamber, so their base would be actually weak. I don't get the people who put them on par with FPSSJ when fighting 18. But they should be much more strong and experienced now so it is bullshit they aren't in the TOP
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I have no idea what you're basing this on? Nothing shows that they were weak.
They were clearly more powerful than 18, and have all the traits of FP Super Saiyans.
They DID train: they constantly sparred with each other, as Super Saiyans, which lead to Gohan worried they'd surpass him. We've already seen Goten can fight evenly with Gohan.
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I'm not sure what you're trying to say with the second one, but ibviously they were weaker than CG Gohan. Boo arc Gohan also was, and pre-Majin Vegeta was implied to be as well.
edited 12th Nov '17 7:35:27 PM by Saiga
Looking at a clip of the Metal Cooler movie on You Tube, I forgot about this really funny moment that stood out to me.
"And this... is to go - even - further - beyond!"
"That's a decent form I suppose."
"Don't try and sell it short Freeza. You and I both know it's an incredible jump. It's changed my whole definition of power."
"So what are you calling this precious level, Super Saiyan with blue hair dye?"
"I know you don't have the patience for the full story Freeza, but I got a taste of Super Saiyan God and then tapped into that power on my own, and it's the Super Saiyan level of that."
"So a Super Saiyan who is as strong as a Super Saiyan God, yet is not a Super Saiyan God, is now the Super Saiyan version of that? You need to work on your descriptions Goku, I nearly bit off my tongue just trying to spit it out!"
Holy crap, this dub
-slow clap-
edited 12th Nov '17 7:50:28 PM by Soble
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!I mean, who didn't fuck up during the Buu Saga? Or even the Cell Saga for that matter?
It's always kind of surreal to me that Goten and Trunks get singled out, both in and out of universe, for dropping the ball.
(6) Dang. I'm really going to have to go and watch the Kai version of the Buu Saga now.
I actually like the animation in that film. Especially how they portrayed Goku and Cooler using Instant Transmission.
That clip also reminded me that Cooler is one of the rare few antagonists who didn't get slugged when Goku used the Kaioken.
edited 12th Nov '17 7:55:52 PM by Soble
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!What? Where do they demonstrate those traits? And why would they have them? Being born Super Saiyan is one thing (a massive short cut, but still) but it makes little sense for them to be Full Power Super Saiyans just because their dads were when they were conceived...because Vegeta wasn't one when Trunks was born.
This I'll buy. Training with someone else has always produced better results.
That's a good issue to have. Toriyama never ran out of ways to give Goku and the other saiyans (but Goku especially) even more of an advantage over the humans (and even Piccolo, though damned if he didn't stay in the race longer than anyone else).
Not singling them out. Lots of other people did fuck up. But Goten and Trunks' fuck up got the rest of their group killed...which proves they are just like their dads since Goku them promptly got the two of them, along with Gohan and Piccolo killed. Like fathers, like sons I suppose.
You're not wrong, though most people seem very determined to downplay his actions. It's not his fault others didn't do anything with the opening he created.
One Strip! One Strip!They have the same aura and eyes of a Super Saiyan Full Power, and are able to control their ki as Super Saiyans.
They didn't get it from being born with it (that's fanon) but likely from sparring with each other.
They specifically mention that sparring as Super Saiyans was the best way to master Super Saiyan. They basically did what Goku and Gohan did, unintentionally.

I think Goten and Trunk's power is supposed to have degraded a bunch from not training.