TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#68526: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:05:20 PM

I think Goten and Trunk's power is supposed to have degraded a bunch from not training.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#68527: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:11:33 PM

Goten and Trunks being too experienced/weak sounds like something fans have always wanted to be true just because them being Super Saiyans always pissed people off, and so now people just expect it despite it never really being a thing.

It's the same way people like to think that they couldn't really beat 18 in the tournament, or even Frieza.

edited 12th Nov '17 7:12:02 PM by LSBK

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68528: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:17:26 PM

[up][up] That doesn't make much sense either, given that Gohan honestly didn't lose a whole lot of strength in his seven years of slacking.

He had trouble with Super Saiyan 2 and was weaker, yeah, but he didn't drop below the base Saiyans or anything crazy

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#68529: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:18:47 PM

Though he managed to get even weaker again by the time of Super, even though it should have only been a few months.

One Strip! One Strip!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#68530: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:19:15 PM

And then comes Super where Gohan honestly worrying about whether he can or can't go Super Saiyan anymore over...what like four or fives years?

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#68531: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:22:21 PM

That depends on how much time passed between the events of BOG and the opening of Resurrection F. We know it was enough time for Pan to be born, and then another 4 months passed after Frieza was revived during which he was training.

Depending on how long it was, he somehow got even weaker than the gap between Cell and Buu in a much shorter period of time.

One Strip! One Strip!
felipelight Teacher from Undisclosed Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Teacher
#68532: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:22:46 PM

They were very weak against 18 as ssj is just a multiplier and they didn't really train before entering the time chamber, so their base would be actually weak. I don't get the people who put them on par with FPSSJ when fighting 18. But they should be much more strong and experienced now so it is bullshit they aren't in the TOP

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68533: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:24:29 PM

Goten and Trunks were also a LOT weaker than Gohan was at the end of the Cell Saga and a lot closer to base Goku and Vegeta during the Buu Saga than he was.

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#68534: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:25:39 PM

Tien...took out one dude, which I suppose is better than nothing

Two, actually. Hermila and The Preecho.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68535: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:27:07 PM

And Harmila was a sniper strong enough to pin down Gohan and Piccolo, so it's not like taking him out was any small feat.

edited 12th Nov '17 7:27:51 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68536: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:33:13 PM

[up][up][up][up] I have no idea what you're basing this on? Nothing shows that they were weak.

They were clearly more powerful than 18, and have all the traits of FP Super Saiyans.

They DID train: they constantly sparred with each other, as Super Saiyans, which lead to Gohan worried they'd surpass him. We've already seen Goten can fight evenly with Gohan.

[up][up][up] I'm not sure what you're trying to say with the second one, but ibviously they were weaker than CG Gohan. Boo arc Gohan also was, and pre-Majin Vegeta was implied to be as well.

edited 12th Nov '17 7:35:27 PM by Saiga

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#68538: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:40:58 PM

I believe Goten and Trunks were stronger than 18 at that point, but I also understand why most fans dislike that idea. As a result, I also get why they would play those two down.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#68539: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:41:15 PM

"And this... is to go - even - further - beyond!"

     

"That's a decent form I suppose."

"Don't try and sell it short Freeza. You and I both know it's an incredible jump. It's changed my whole definition of power."

"So what are you calling this precious level, Super Saiyan with blue hair dye?"

"I know you don't have the patience for the full story Freeza, but I got a taste of Super Saiyan God and then tapped into that power on my own, and it's the Super Saiyan level of that."

"So a Super Saiyan who is as strong as a Super Saiyan God, yet is not a Super Saiyan God, is now the Super Saiyan version of that? You need to work on your descriptions Goku, I nearly bit off my tongue just trying to spit it out!"

Holy crap, this dub [lol] -slow clap-

edited 12th Nov '17 7:50:28 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#68540: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:41:24 PM

I'm okay with the majority of the cast dropping out of the active fighting over time, my issue is just that all the best powerups are restricted to one species.

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#68541: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:43:54 PM

[up][up]The Kai dub actually makes Babidi less annoying and gives him some good banter.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#68542: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:44:55 PM

Huh the Metal Cooler does have weird animation.

Damn the Abridged version looks better.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#68543: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:45:59 PM

They really, REALLY dropped the ball with Super Buu. If they'd stopped fucking around and used Super Saiyan 3 from the get go, maybe they'd have...no, no they wouldn't have. I forgot Buu was just fucking around until Gohan showed up.

I mean, who didn't fuck up during the Buu Saga? Or even the Cell Saga for that matter?

It's always kind of surreal to me that Goten and Trunks get singled out, both in and out of universe, for dropping the ball.

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#68544: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:47:22 PM

I mean, who didn't fuck up during the Buu Saga?

Mr. Satan.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68545: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:52:28 PM

Tenshinhan didn't screw up in the Cell Saga.

felipelight Teacher from Undisclosed Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Teacher
#68546: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:52:45 PM

Nah, Satan fucked up on his mercy on Van zant. Bee didn't fuck up

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#68547: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:53:27 PM

[up][up] Yeah Krillen & Vegeta did it for him. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#68548: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:54:12 PM

[up] (6) Dang. I'm really going to have to go and watch the Kai version of the Buu Saga now.

Looking at a clip of the Metal Cooler movie on You Tube, I forgot about this really funny moment that stood out to me. [lol]

I actually like the animation in that film. Especially how they portrayed Goku and Cooler using Instant Transmission.

That clip also reminded me that Cooler is one of the rare few antagonists who didn't get slugged when Goku used the Kaioken.

edited 12th Nov '17 7:55:52 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#68549: Nov 12th 2017 at 7:58:04 PM

They were clearly more powerful than 18, and have all the traits of FP Super Saiyans.

What? Where do they demonstrate those traits? And why would they have them? Being born Super Saiyan is one thing (a massive short cut, but still) but it makes little sense for them to be Full Power Super Saiyans just because their dads were when they were conceived...because Vegeta wasn't one when Trunks was born.

They DID train: they constantly sparred with each other, as Super Saiyans, which lead to Gohan worried they'd surpass him. We've already seen Goten can fight evenly with Gohan.

This I'll buy. Training with someone else has always produced better results.

I'm okay with the majority of the cast dropping out of the active fighting over time, my issue is just that all the best powerups are restricted to one species.

That's a good issue to have. Toriyama never ran out of ways to give Goku and the other saiyans (but Goku especially) even more of an advantage over the humans (and even Piccolo, though damned if he didn't stay in the race longer than anyone else).

I mean, who didn't fuck up during the Buu Saga? Or even the Cell Saga for that matter? It's always kind of surreal to me that Goten and Trunks get singled out, both in and out of universe, for dropping the ball.

Not singling them out. Lots of other people did fuck up. But Goten and Trunks' fuck up got the rest of their group killed...which proves they are just like their dads since Goku them promptly got the two of them, along with Gohan and Piccolo killed. Like fathers, like sons I suppose.

Tenshinhan didn't screw up in the Cell Saga.

You're not wrong, though most people seem very determined to downplay his actions. It's not his fault others didn't do anything with the opening he created.

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68550: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:01:17 PM

They have the same aura and eyes of a Super Saiyan Full Power, and are able to control their ki as Super Saiyans.

They didn't get it from being born with it (that's fanon) but likely from sparring with each other.

They specifically mention that sparring as Super Saiyans was the best way to master Super Saiyan. They basically did what Goku and Gohan did, unintentionally.


Total posts: 130,800
Top