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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#68401: Nov 11th 2017 at 6:58:42 PM

The plot is knocking everyone out.

Thats the basic plot of a tournament arc.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68402: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:00:34 PM

To be fair, "Ulitmate Battle" isn't necessarily Ultra Instinct "Omen"s theme. That would be that snippet of music used during the last segment of Goku vs Jiren as well as the music used when he transformed this episode.

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#68403: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:02:28 PM

I felt like tonight's episode kind of tempered some of the blowback for those upset over how powerful Kefla was. Here, it was clearly demonstrated she was just roughly on par with SSB Kaoiken Goku.

I wonder if any of the three we saw blown away were eliminated. Doesn't seem like it, which, what a waste of time.

Unless the Omniking(s) specifically white them out, I wouldn't count on it.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68404: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:03:51 PM

...how would that temper anything? That makes her even stronger than we previously saw.

I know Goku's a jobber, but "just" being as powerful than Kaio-ken Blue Goku is ridiculous. (though she clearly wasn't meant to be that powerful, definitely stronger than Blue tho)

edited 11th Nov '17 7:05:15 PM by Saiga

DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#68405: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:07:27 PM

I don't know, Potara fusions have always been extreme in terms of power jumps. And we'd already seen that Kale in Berserk mode was close to SSB Goku's level.

Not surprised that a fusion would result in something of Kefla's level. Actually, I'm surprised she's not more powerful.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68406: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:09:16 PM

Kale in an even stronger form than Berserk mode also got her ass kicked by God Goku.

If Vegetto is not meant to be this powerful, it's ridiculous that base/Super Saiyan Kafla are.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#68407: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:09:44 PM

Yeah all this talk about "why is Kafla so powerful?" is super dumb. The explanation is because fusions are dope as hell, like it always has been.

edited 11th Nov '17 7:10:30 PM by Moth13

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68408: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:11:22 PM

Uhhhh no

As keeps being pointed out, fusions AREN'T this powerful

If you look at the way fusions have previously been used, you'll see why it isn't "dumb" to point out the painfully obvious contradiction

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#68409: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:13:32 PM

Nah. Fusion has always been an absurd jump in power.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68410: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:13:41 PM

Seems like Kafla's just stronger than Vegetto, in the same forms at least. I could see her putting up a fight against Ultra Instinct in Super Saiyan 3 about as well as Vegetto would in Super Saiyan Blue.

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#68411: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:13:56 PM

Gotenks makes explosive ghosts. Vegito beat buuhan's ass as a piece of candy. Fusions have always been dumb.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68412: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:14:37 PM

[up][up][up] But not as absurd as this, historically.

[up] That's nowhere near the same thing.

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#68413: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:17:09 PM

How is Vegito as a piece of candy being far stronger than buu + goten, trunks and gohan( himself stronger than buu) far less ridiculous than this?

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#68414: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:17:28 PM

But not as absurd as this, historically.

When Goku and Vegeta first fused into Vegito they fought someone who was four tiers above them as individuals and made him look like an embarrassment. I agree with the assessment that if anything Kafla should have been more powerful than she was.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#68415: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:18:30 PM

Vegito practically raped Super Buu even in his base form.

And then beat the shit outta Merged Zamasu like it was nothing.

Fusion multiplication is immense.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68416: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:18:37 PM

Because there's no indication that turning into a piece of candy made him any weaker.

[up]Filler.

edited 11th Nov '17 7:19:01 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#68417: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:18:52 PM

[up]X6 So Gotenks making an attack, and Vegetto being stronger than Blue somehow accounts for Kefla's hella inconsistent and illogical strength?

edited 11th Nov '17 7:19:56 PM by LSBK

felipelight Teacher from Undisclosed Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Teacher
#68418: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:20:09 PM

Base form stomping is filler tho.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68419: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:21:43 PM

I think you're vastly overestimating Kale and Caulifla individually. Caulifla ain't shit, for starters, and Kale's Blue showing is completely inconsistent with her God showing, where she was at her most powerful and still got defeated.

Furthermore, Vegetto wasn't supposed to be a good option against Beerus. Yet here, base Kafla can easily beat up God Goku. That's incredibly inconsistent.

Like, it'd be possible that God Goku actually ended up weaker than Vegetto since Beerus held back. But they never set it up that way or revealed it that way, and Blue Vegetto should have been even more ridiculous then.

edited 11th Nov '17 7:23:21 PM by Saiga

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#68420: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:23:11 PM

Fusion put Vegito and Goku far far beyond where they were as individuals. Fusion put Kale and Caulifla far beyond where they were as individuals. What is the difference here?

Super has been basically nothing but inconsistent, nostaligia fueled fansevice. Must we always spend every single week talking bout it as if this is some new fact despite it being like this for 115 eps now.

edited 11th Nov '17 7:26:53 PM by Jedi1113

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68421: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:23:49 PM

The magnitude. We know more detail than that incredibly reductive statement.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#68422: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:24:04 PM

Then thats a regular old Super problem.

I'm not really defending this, it just doesn't surprise me.

[up] Fucking escalation man.

edited 11th Nov '17 7:24:42 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68423: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:28:36 PM

Saiga, you're one of the people who supports "base Goku and Vegeta now are stronger than SS3 Gotenks because Goku absorbed Super Saiyan God's power into his base and Super Saiyan forms". Going by that logic, the difference between base and God nowadays should be FAR, FAR less than the difference between them in Battle of Gods, and Potara can make up this difference currently.

While I disagree with that train of thought, you don't, and so you shouldn't really have a leg to stand on to complain. The godly forms were stronger than Potara in Battle of Gods, but obviously that's changed.

Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#68424: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:30:19 PM

It looks like kefla is gonna go out next week, although I'm guessing she goes 3 and delays goku till his ultra instinct runs out, and then kefla will probably defuse because strength limit. also good to see gohan block an attack on piccollo for once instead of the other way around.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#68425: Nov 11th 2017 at 7:40:36 PM

Yeah not only is the difference between Kale and God Goku far smaller than the difference between Super Saiyan 3 Goku and Beerus, but the return of Super Sayian God has been so unexplained that trying to make any sort of statement on how strong it is currently compared to his other forms is a fool's errand.


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