TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#68376: Nov 11th 2017 at 4:07:32 PM

Yeah, and it didn't work. It's pretty obvious at this point that this series just won't work without Goku.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#68377: Nov 11th 2017 at 4:09:24 PM

After one try...?

They need to take an actual risk with that.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#68378: Nov 11th 2017 at 4:12:53 PM

[up][up]

I mean, was it really not working, or did Toriyama just give up on it cause he liked writing Goku more?

He was the one who decided to switch back to Goku on his own, rather than fans demanding Goku back like we'd thought at one point. Do we know how people in Japan felt about Gohan taking his dad's place?

One Strip! One Strip!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#68379: Nov 11th 2017 at 4:15:16 PM

They hated it, so much that the series nearly died...

He just started writing Kakarrot again before he could receive the backlash...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#68380: Nov 11th 2017 at 4:20:57 PM

I mean, whether it's because the writers don't want to change main characters or they just don't think the show works without Goku as the lead, the result is the same either way.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68381: Nov 11th 2017 at 4:21:46 PM

Yeah, I think the series would work fine without Goku as the lead and that it was a mistake to bring him back as the MC. In fact, I think his character would work better now if he wasn't in the spotlight all the time.

[up][up] You're going to need to reference a source for that. Gohan was at the top of the popularity polls during the Cell games, and stayed in the top 5 for the rest of the manga.

To put it simply: the majority of fans will root for whoever you tell them to. If Gohan was the main character, he'd be popular, which we'd already seen.

edited 11th Nov '17 4:23:23 PM by Saiga

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68382: Nov 11th 2017 at 4:23:54 PM

Goku's goal is fighting strong opponents: It's not a deep goal, but it's one that's versatile enough that Goku can still fit as a protagonist no matter what.

Vegetas arc was finished, but since he's the most known character after Goku and everyone would flip the Fuck out if Vegeta had a smaller role, he was promoted to the second main character.

However, Vegetas role has basically been reduced to lagging behind Goku, except in this case it doesn't really lead to any interesting development

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#68383: Nov 11th 2017 at 4:23:56 PM

[up][up]Randomness doesn't need references for ridiculous exaggerations...

edited 11th Nov '17 4:24:10 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#68384: Nov 11th 2017 at 4:25:30 PM

[up][up][up]Hell, during the Z era (Saiyan Saga until near the end of Buu when he came back) Toriyama was constantly taking him out of the action and separating him from other characters (he did the same in DB as well, but not to the same extent he did in Z I'd say), so in a sense Goku was already being downplayed, becoming less a character and more of a Deus ex Machina or walking trump card who'd turn things around when he came on the scene...

...and then promptly fail to actual beat the bad guy, even if they still won the battle somehow.

Toriyama seems to both want him in the story and not want him in the story at the same time.

edited 11th Nov '17 4:26:25 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#68385: Nov 11th 2017 at 4:27:52 PM

Didn't we all except Goku passing the torch to Gohan after the Cell Saga & expect him to be the new MC?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68386: Nov 11th 2017 at 4:31:14 PM

That's what they were going for yea.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68387: Nov 11th 2017 at 5:04:44 PM

That is one of the problems with Z's writing, that wasn't really present in Dragon Ball and I'm very glad was dropped for Super. The story should be about the main character's journey, not about the side characters waiting for the main character to arrive and Deus ex Machina the threat away.

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#68388: Nov 11th 2017 at 5:28:57 PM

Found another Ultra Instinct video:

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68389: Nov 11th 2017 at 5:35:31 PM

That was something I had enjoyed about Z. Besides, had Toriyama stuck with using Gohan as the main character, then the arcs leading up to that would have been following (mostly) his POV, it would have been a nice transition period.

Also, it's not like Super has done away with that entirely. Resurrection F and BOG had that, it's just that they were originally movies and thus very short, U 6 had Goku sidelined early to come back for the last battle. It's just the last two arcs that really had him in the forefront the whole way through, and that's caused a separate issue in the current arc where he's sandbagging or being an idiot the entire time.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68390: Nov 11th 2017 at 5:56:30 PM

115: Pretty good episode. Not quite as insanely good-looking as last weeks, and even I noticed some obvious moments of reused animation. The writing was still pretty fun, what with the other universes talking about whether or not they should bother with the Potara. Looks like we shouldn't count U3 out yet, given how Ea thinks they don't need it to win. They've still got some tricks up their sleeve.

Fight choreography was pretty nice, though I questioned the use of an instrumental version of "The Ultimate Battle" when Goku was just using Blue, since that song has pretty much been adopted by the fanbase as Ultra Instinct's theme song. Looks like Kafla is stronger than Blue but weaker than Blue Kaioken, and she won only because Goku's stamina is completely shot. Looks like that's the same reason she was able to kick around God Goku in base.

Little annoyed at the lack of an answer as to how she's so strong aside from "Goku's tired", but I'm not really surprised. They didn't explain Goku bringing back Super Saiyan God, either, Super just doesn't explain things sometimes. Closest I got was Beerus mentioning how 17 and 18 fused would work well because of how synchronized they are as twins.

Kafla's cool, Goku's cool, and Goku is going to sleep for a month once this tournament ends.

edited 11th Nov '17 5:58:17 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#68391: Nov 11th 2017 at 5:58:20 PM

Wouldn't he die from that...?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68392: Nov 11th 2017 at 5:59:02 PM

He's a Saiyan, he'd be fine.

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#68393: Nov 11th 2017 at 6:02:04 PM

I'd kill for 17 and 18 to do a fusion dance/potara fusion.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#68394: Nov 11th 2017 at 6:32:14 PM

Yeah after the Jiren fight and its fantastic animation it feels weird to hear that song used over ki spam clashing.

Also aww, I was hoping to see more fusions. Especially since those two universe 2 peeps don't seem to be main attraction material. (although the bearded guy is a Tuffle I think? Maybe they'll do something with that).

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#68395: Nov 11th 2017 at 6:35:35 PM

U3 is still relevant, thank god.

nervously wipes sweat away from brow

edited 11th Nov '17 6:35:47 PM by hardcorefakes

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#68396: Nov 11th 2017 at 6:41:56 PM

I just want to say, I love how Ultra Instinct movements are animated. You can really see he's moving differently from normal.

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#68397: Nov 11th 2017 at 6:42:19 PM

That's the third episode in a row without a single elimination, and I have a feeling we're going for four. Can we please start knocking some people out already?

edited 11th Nov '17 6:42:28 PM by TyeDyeWildebeest

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68398: Nov 11th 2017 at 6:42:49 PM

I wonder if any of the three we saw blown away were eliminated. Doesn't seem like it, which, what a waste of time.

Love how 18 cameo'd just to be a damsel for 17. Amazing.

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#68399: Nov 11th 2017 at 6:48:44 PM

The writers don't know how to effectively get rid of characters.

I say f*ck it, just make it all contrived, because at this point it's starting to drag on. Plot needs to move forward now/

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#68400: Nov 11th 2017 at 6:55:03 PM

What plot?

It's a tournament...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.

Total posts: 130,800
Top