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TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#68251: Nov 10th 2017 at 11:11:40 AM

Human fans will never cease to entertain me.

Um, hey, human fan over here...

...well, I like Krillin, at least. Krillin's my favorite.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#68252: Nov 10th 2017 at 11:15:09 AM

Well, skill apparently has some significance...

Kriller always mentions it in one of the games...

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TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#68253: Nov 10th 2017 at 11:26:16 AM

Now I'm curious how a Watagashi Tao would be like.

It would be an interesting way to make him a real threat again. He holds the distinction of being the first opponent to completely overwhelm Goku. Sure, before him Goku had opponents like Nam and Roshi who could give him a decent fight, but Tao marked the first time Goku was just completely out of his depth.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Fedetropes Call me Blast, not Fedetropes from Doomed universe Since: Dec, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
#68254: Nov 10th 2017 at 12:08:23 PM

I was just watching some amv's and remember how awesome the fight against kid buu is

¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"
hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#68255: Nov 10th 2017 at 12:25:59 PM

Strategy and tactics play a huge role in other popular anime and manga, but it's not relevant in Dragon Ball, so that rubs some people the wrong way.

That's why you have people who are desperate for the humans to do something. Not that I care about the humans or anything, but I'm pointing out the source of their frustration.

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#68256: Nov 10th 2017 at 12:30:12 PM

[up] I mean, technically strategy is present in Dragon Ball, just not the "Just according to Keikaku" variety. Stuff like Goku's fight with Hit where he switches up his strategy to anticipating where Hit would strike after time skipping.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68257: Nov 10th 2017 at 12:30:52 PM

Strategy and tactics are relevant in Dragon Ball. But the humans don't have a noticeable edge in this department (despite what fanon would have you believe) and there is nothing preventing more powerful characters from using strategy.

Also, you can only get so far with strategy and tactics. Part of it involves making the most of what you have, and when what you have is jack shit compared to your opponent strategy won't save you.

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#68258: Nov 10th 2017 at 12:44:08 PM

ABC logic holds true for DB, but not all series. It's how you get situations where Batman (weaker than Krillin) takes down Superman, but something like that would never happen in DB.

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#68259: Nov 10th 2017 at 12:46:22 PM

[up] Did you forget Sorbet taking down Goku? tongue

edited 10th Nov '17 12:46:33 PM by Lionheart0

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#68260: Nov 10th 2017 at 12:50:01 PM

Pretty sure that moment was widely mocked on this thread...

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68261: Nov 10th 2017 at 12:59:14 PM

Batman taking down Superman is equally writer fiat, that's not a good example

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#68262: Nov 10th 2017 at 1:09:13 PM

To be fair, you did mention that you have to make the best with what you have when it comes to tactics. And if Batman has access to Kryptonite, well, then it makes some sense if he can weaken Superman enough to hurt him.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68263: Nov 10th 2017 at 1:33:17 PM

Hurting him is a far cry from beating him, the comics are pretty consistent that it takes more tha just access to Kryptonite to beat him giving how many advantages Superman posesses.

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#68264: Nov 10th 2017 at 1:39:22 PM

But...but muh prep time :(

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#68265: Nov 10th 2017 at 1:55:07 PM

Batman himself has admitted on multiple occasions (even when he's had kryptonite) that he wouldn't be able to beat Superman.

The closest he came was in The Dark Knight Returns, and that was against a Superman who didn't want to fight him, and was already weakened before hand.

If you want humans to be relevant, then you need to completely change the entirety of dragon ball, because it's been driven home time and time again that if you don't have enough ki, you've already lost.

I kinda hate it a bit too (or rather, I hate how big the gaps are, as they've gotten ridiculous) but you can't do anything.

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68266: Nov 10th 2017 at 2:27:28 PM

Honestly, it's because the Saiyans have a monopoly on transformations. The Humans currently are around as strong as the base Saiyans, and yet Krillin is still something like 60,000 times weaker than Vegeta at his best (Super Saiyan Blue) and 3,000,000 times weaker than Goku at his best (Ultra Instinct "Omen").

edited 10th Nov '17 2:29:52 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#68267: Nov 10th 2017 at 3:27:09 PM

It's the only way people can rationalize humans ever being relevant again.

In regards to the Reddit post, the idea of a Majin Krillin does kind of intrigue me

To be honest... we still don't know what Ultra Instinct/Omen is exactly... so I'd like to think that humans can access to if they get mauled badly enough.

Which means you-know-who is a shoe-in.

edited 10th Nov '17 3:28:36 PM by Soble

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hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#68268: Nov 10th 2017 at 4:39:18 PM

I don't know.....Ultra Instinct is supposed to be something that is difficult to attain even for Go Ds. Don't know how the humans could ever hope to achieve it.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#68269: Nov 10th 2017 at 4:41:01 PM

If the humans can't learn Kaioken, they really aren't getting Ultra Instinct. And that's fine.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68270: Nov 10th 2017 at 4:50:18 PM

Ultra Instinct isn't Saiyan exclusive, but the form that allowed Goku to reach it when it's incredibly difficult likely is. And that comes with a big ol' helping of power as well.

Even if the humans suddenly gained Ultra Instinct, they should still pale in the face of far more powerful characters.

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#68271: Nov 10th 2017 at 4:51:39 PM

[up][up] Well, hold on... Ultra Instinct kicked in for Goku because he was about to die. Maybe Ultra Instinct is difficult to attain for GODs because they so rarely find themselves in such a position.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#68272: Nov 10th 2017 at 4:52:06 PM

Uub prolly can by measure of being an eldritch abomination's reincarnation.

[up] That does make sense.

edited 10th Nov '17 4:52:32 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#68273: Nov 10th 2017 at 5:36:47 PM

Around in 2013, I spoke about humans not being relevant with a friend of mine, and I actually said that I like when in DC, Superman has trouble with normal humans despite being almost omni-potent. From a point of view, it gives humanity some points and is not number 2 to the aliens (it helps that, humans themselves have a wide variety of powers in the Dc universe), and I kinda wanted Dragon Ball to have a bit of that.

Of course, its posible is not going to happen because: 1. Dragon Ball is so well put into the international market as a fighting series thanks to Z, that anything that doesn't involve fighting will actually get rejected (Which, is not false. Battle of Gods took this blame for making Beerus a comic relief villain.) and 2. It needs some more competent writer than Toriyama and the Toei Staff to think of it.

Which is possibly why i'm enjoying the fact Android 21 is a genius: she has a plan, and doesn't fight herself... but that sort of falls wasted when she is 1) an Android and 2) doing the same thing as Towa (which is a science-witch thing like Rita Repulsa or something)

TL;DR: I would love to have competent human villains in Dragon Ball, but that's a bit too much to ask.

edited 10th Nov '17 5:42:53 PM by Tomodachi

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#68274: Nov 10th 2017 at 5:43:17 PM

The thing I never got about human fans is their distaste for the androids. Why don't they ever matter in their dreams of human supremacy?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#68275: Nov 10th 2017 at 5:46:59 PM

Cause I think its either their considered a different species or they didn't work for it. Its the fetishistic of badass normal right?

Androids are cool, you all know that when Fighter Z sells well Android 21 is gonna appear in the main series?

edited 10th Nov '17 5:47:38 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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