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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68051: Nov 7th 2017 at 5:20:52 AM

That's the problem though, no one else has been getting eliminated. He'll, the focus has halted basically.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#68052: Nov 7th 2017 at 5:24:09 AM

That's why I said what I said.

Gehayadren Bad Movie Binge Collector from A Garbage Fire Since: Jun, 2016 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#68053: Nov 7th 2017 at 5:59:36 AM

Good, Ribrianne deserves to get erased. She's nothing but a brat.

Ha ha ha. What a story, Mark.
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#68054: Nov 7th 2017 at 6:03:29 AM

Y'all are forgetting the big picture here, other universes are considering fusion.

Just imagine the chaos... evil grin

Larfleeze Agent Orange Since: May, 2009
Agent Orange
#68055: Nov 7th 2017 at 6:03:57 AM

Really hope Kefla doesn’t get eliminated too soon. With Hit and Cabba out and Gowasu erased she’s basically the only non U7 character I care about. Plus I really want her to fight Freeza.

Do you know what people want the most? Something somebody else has.
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#68056: Nov 7th 2017 at 6:17:48 AM

Another thing I noticed in the latest episode, it seemed that Kale got what looks like a new-ish form?

It's similar to her "regular" Super Saiyan, except it's more green like Berserk and it's also spikier.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#68057: Nov 7th 2017 at 6:23:33 AM

That's apparently the result of her controlling the berserk power.

You know, all of all the stuff introduced in this arc, Kale powers are the biggest contrivance by far. And they seem to only exist for the sake of a Broly shot out.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#68058: Nov 7th 2017 at 6:41:42 AM

To be honest, I kinda see U6 being the next one to go.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#68059: Nov 7th 2017 at 7:09:41 AM

One of the biggest criticisms of the idea of Skill beating Strength in Dragon Ball is that all of the characters are equally skilled, but that doesn't really apply here. Roshi, Goku, and Hit have each held their own against much more powerful opponents, Ganos, Caulifla, and Jiren, respectively, just due to sheer martial arts technique and special abilities, in Hit's case. It's fairly obvious that a lot of the fighters here aren't trained martial artists, while some are clearly wearing martials arts gear and take martial arts stances, such as most of U10, many others just rely on raw power or gimmicks to fight, like all of U3 and much of U4. This provides a very different and unique atmosphere for this tournament to have, where Team U7 being full of martial arts masters actually is an observable advantage they have over many of the other universes.

...I don't think the complaint has ever centered on "everyone is equally skilled, so the stronger ones win", it's always been "at a certain point the gap in strength becomes something that can't be overcome by skill". Which is a sentiment that a lot of people really resent.

As for when and where that gap is, that probably varies between characters, but you will notice that even with the examples you've provide people always go into depth about why they think it's bullshit. It often seems you're working under the logic that if the show did it it must make sense in someway instead of just going "okay, maybe this really does make no sense."

I'm not even saying everything is like that, but if these issues keep coming up that you have to keep making new hand waves, that should probably tell you something.

edited 7th Nov '17 7:10:32 AM by LSBK

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#68060: Nov 7th 2017 at 8:08:46 AM

That is good point. It rings true for most of Dragon Ball barring a few exceptions.

"Mai waifu."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68061: Nov 7th 2017 at 8:24:57 AM

Huh, so that one theory was actually true. Kafla does exist as a character to help Goku get Ultra Instinct again. Also, I guess this confirms that there's something unsual going on with how strong Kafla is if she pushes Goku to use a form stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Vegetto without actually having Super Saiyan Blue or anything similar herself.

[up][up]Saiga, for instance, has said "skill doesn't matter over power because everyone is equally skilled" in the past as a direct argument against it.

edited 7th Nov '17 8:27:26 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#68062: Nov 7th 2017 at 8:31:05 AM

We have spoilers for Episode 119 too: Someone from U 7 gets eliminated. U 4 makes their move.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#68063: Nov 7th 2017 at 8:32:31 AM

[up][up]I don't recall him doing that, but if he did I probably disagree. Depending on context.

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#68064: Nov 7th 2017 at 8:51:35 AM

For the record, I still have no problem with Roshi beating Ganos, mainly because we have no idea how strong Ganos really is.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
DS9guy Since: Jan, 2001
#68065: Nov 7th 2017 at 8:59:44 AM

I already knew Studio Cockpit did some episodes of DBZ and that one of the people who worked under supervisor Keisuke Masunaga was Masaaki Iawne, a name that Pokemon anime fans know very. What I recently learned is that he animated one of the pivotal moments of the series: The death of Cell. I love that distorted face.

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#68066: Nov 7th 2017 at 11:00:07 AM

We have spoilers for Episode 119 too: Someone from U 7 gets eliminated. U 4 makes their move.

My money is on Piccolo.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#68067: Nov 7th 2017 at 11:19:50 AM

My money's on Piccolo as well, mostly because he's the only one who makes sense to take out alone at this point. If the Androids are going out they're almost certainly going out together.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68068: Nov 7th 2017 at 12:44:38 PM

My argument was that the series didn't focus on individual skill, and most of what people talk about in regards to skill is their own assumptions, rationalizations and projections.

We see numerous cases where two characters are said to be evenly matched in strength... which leads to them being evenly matched in battle, with no reference to any skill gap that should be there.

Characters who should have no martial arts background aren't shown having trouble with the heroes, and the heroes don't make mention about how the younger generation trail behind in skill.

While the series is very clear about who is stronger than who, it really doesn't go into individual skill in a way that we could compare the skill level of two characters in the way we can their strength levels.

There are a few statements relating to skill sprinkled out, but they're usually there to hype one person and can't be guaged against anything else. And we can also see examples of characters fighting in skilled ways, but they're not consistent about it.

It feels more like there is an underlying assumption that everyone is equally skilled enough that it won't always be the deciding factor if two equally-strong people fight.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#68069: Nov 7th 2017 at 1:07:41 PM

[up]

Hmm. Well, Skill mostly seems to come across in the form of learning techniques (hardly anyone in Dragonball is ever shown learning something from someone else; they just tend to pick it up instantly).

So in the end, strength has always been a huge deciding factor in all battles. Plague of Gripes (from what little I saw of this video) pointed it out with the Tao Pai Pai battle: when Goku lost to him, he didn't search for any strategy to overcome Tao's attack or a weakness in his style. He just level grinded to make himself stronger and more powerful).

Are the characters skilled? Hell yeah. Goku pulling off shit like blowing in the air to stop himself from falling, or being able to not only tell that one of Tien's clones is behind him about to attack, but exactly how he's going to attack? That's skill. But it's mostly a footnote to raw brute strength I've gathered.

Also there's this video:

I think Masako is reading too much into this one. If the GP wanted to take out those other universes, he'd had done it I think. There's no need for such an over elaborate scheme.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68070: Nov 7th 2017 at 1:16:01 PM

You know what would have been funny? Since Tenshinhan is actually present at the tournament, Goku should've yelled his apology for stealing the Solar Flare to him, instead of muttering it to himself.

edited 7th Nov '17 1:16:13 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#68071: Nov 7th 2017 at 1:39:06 PM

[up][up] Ah, yeah, I saw the video you're talking about. Here it is, if anyone's interested:

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#68073: Nov 7th 2017 at 1:45:54 PM

Calm down. No one's going to talk about it.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#68074: Nov 7th 2017 at 2:03:06 PM

I mean, it's a long ass video, but maybe one day, I'll have the patience to actually watch it all the way.

The thing about Tao really made me look at how fights go in this series, which I'd already been doing I suppose.

One Strip! One Strip!
TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#68075: Nov 7th 2017 at 2:06:52 PM

Wait, someone posted this here before?

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!

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