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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68001: Nov 6th 2017 at 3:53:57 PM

Manga black threw a tantrum as soon as Vegeta overpowered him. That's pretty childish.

[up][up] I never took issue with Blue's performance in the Anime. It's honestly no different from how this series usually treats transformations after a certain point.

Ultra Instinct feels more like a state of mind than a transformation tbh.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68002: Nov 6th 2017 at 3:56:44 PM

Oh yeah, when God Vegeta is beating him. But he stays calm while Zamasu is freaking out after that.

Edit: The anime in general is worse about how the transformations in treated, but Blue is definitely the worst of them due to both worfing constantly and being used unnessecarily.

edited 6th Nov '17 3:58:17 PM by Saiga

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#68003: Nov 6th 2017 at 3:59:34 PM

Just speaking for myself, but most of the "Blue is worthless" talk is shitposting because I think it's funny. While I genuinely do think the Hit fight in the manga is nowhere near as good as the fight in the anime.

edited 6th Nov '17 4:00:15 PM by Moth13

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#68004: Nov 6th 2017 at 4:05:21 PM

Just reread Manga Hit's fight. It is more consistent with his TOP performance than the anime one, complete with having an specific twitch being a telltale sign of a time skip. And I second Saiga, he works better if he is weaker than Goku on a straight fight, but able to kill him with relative ease: Goku knows he can't bring his whole potential and forfeits due to uneven conditions.

It also makes some sense with Goku figuring him out: Goku is a martial artist, Vegeta is more of a soldier.

Anime!Hit was a good fight, true, but it was pretty much "Goku is in a power disadvantage but manages to pull a stunt that solves that" once again, while Manga!Hit was more of figuring out an opponent who has an advantage other than raw strenght.

edited 6th Nov '17 4:07:55 PM by Eriorguez

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#68005: Nov 6th 2017 at 4:15:16 PM

Didn't Goku then use the original God form to overpower him in the same way the anime had him use Kaioken Blue?

One Strip! One Strip!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#68006: Nov 6th 2017 at 4:32:27 PM

He was overpowering him with God, forcing Hit to go all out, and he was confident he could stop God Goku... but then he switched to Blue.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#68007: Nov 6th 2017 at 4:33:02 PM

Exact same story. There's no purpose in claiming the anime or the manga is better than one another aside from partisanship.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#68008: Nov 6th 2017 at 4:33:35 PM

So he overpowered him just like in the anime.

The differences are rather minor but at least the anime brought back the Kaioken.

edited 6th Nov '17 4:34:20 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68009: Nov 6th 2017 at 4:36:05 PM

[up][up] eh, even in this case there are a few differences. Manga Hit has more explicit limits, and was holding back his full power.

I like manga Hit's limits but also like anime Hit improving during the fight not by getting stronger, but for improving his time skip.

edited 6th Nov '17 4:40:14 PM by Saiga

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#68010: Nov 6th 2017 at 4:38:29 PM

No, I mean the story beats are the same. The plots will never be different in any structural sense.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68011: Nov 6th 2017 at 4:41:18 PM

...there is an enormous gap between 'story beats are mostly the same' and 'any preference is partisanship'

edited 6th Nov '17 4:41:37 PM by Saiga

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#68012: Nov 6th 2017 at 4:43:16 PM

I never said a thing about preferences. My comment was directed at months of seeing arguments about the manga or anime being better (across several websites) while the other was shit. It's tiresome. Let people have a preference, just don't lose your mind over it.

edited 6th Nov '17 4:45:57 PM by VeryMelon

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#68013: Nov 6th 2017 at 4:45:23 PM

I do get annoyed at the comment section spamming "Manga is better than the Anime" after every chapter.

Though while I don't actually read the manga the last 2 chapters were pretty good for changing up up the preliminaries.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#68014: Nov 6th 2017 at 4:51:31 PM

Bringing back Kaioken, then having Goku and Vegeta on equal terms despite the former having access to an outright multiplier, is foregoing inner consistency for the sake of momentaneous spectacle.

The manga has Vegeta catching up with Goku, but Goku being one step ahead. The anime has Goku being 20 times stronger than Vegeta, except when Vegeta is stronger.

By the way, getting annoyed at people saying the manga is better than the anime, but not reading the manga? "How dare you say the thing I do not follow is better than the thing I follow!", really?

edited 6th Nov '17 4:52:49 PM by Eriorguez

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68015: Nov 6th 2017 at 5:16:53 PM

Yeah I really dislike the way the anime has handled the anime's return. Big scaling/escalation issues from having it, and Vegeta just can't compare realistically.

I know the way Kaio-ken was originally written out was unsatisfactory, but I believe its presence created issues that have only become worse with its return.

I wouldn't be surprised if Kaio-ken is dropped in the exact same unsatisfying way it originally was when Goku gets control of Ultra Instinct.

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#68016: Nov 6th 2017 at 5:18:25 PM

Clearly Goku has to use Kaio-ken on top of UI.

TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#68017: Nov 6th 2017 at 5:19:01 PM

Super Saiyan Blue 3 Ultra Instinict Kaio-Ken X20

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#68018: Nov 6th 2017 at 5:21:32 PM

Wait why would Veggie ever be Goku's equal?

He's always one step behind, thats his shtick.

Its like what Toppo said he's a second fiddle no matter what.

edited 6th Nov '17 5:21:58 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#68019: Nov 6th 2017 at 5:25:59 PM

That's really not accurate to several points in the series. It only really started when Goku exited the time chamber to begin with.

More recent stuff has them as peers, which is a more interesting dynamic after the Can't Catch Up angle is played out.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#68020: Nov 6th 2017 at 5:39:39 PM

It's not that much different from when Goku has SSJ 3 over Vegeta tbh.

On the whole, I understand the problems with the Kaioken, but it was still a pretty cool call back.

The manga vs. Anime debates are tiresome, but unavoidable. While they both tell the same basic story, how they handle them is different and people will prefer one over the other.

There are things I like in the Anime over the Manga, and vice versa.

I'm not here to talk up which one is better, but to discuss how they differ and what I preferred

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Gehayadren Bad Movie Binge Collector from A Garbage Fire Since: Jun, 2016 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#68021: Nov 6th 2017 at 5:49:07 PM

Vegeta will never use SSJ 3 because he has no need for it, but he did get it in one of the Raging Blast games.

Ha ha ha. What a story, Mark.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68023: Nov 6th 2017 at 7:17:34 PM

Small thing to check: Hit doesn't have a strength advantage over Goku in the anime. It's made pretty clear, both from his fight with Vegeta as well as his fight with Goku, that Hit is slightly weaker than Super Saiyan Blue. He just makes up the difference with his pressure point attacks and his Time-Skip. Goku uses the Kaioken in order to deal with Hit improving his Time-Skip (which I love, Hit doing a big screamy power-up that doesn't raise his Power Level any but makes his Time-Skip last longer is great), not because he couldn't beat Hit without using it.

Hell, there's even a mini-arc focusing on Goku defeating Hit when Hit's out to kill and Goku doesn't even use Kaioken there because he's adapted to Hit's shenanigans. By the way, there's a win you can put under the belt of Super Saiyan Blue.

edited 6th Nov '17 7:23:44 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#68025: Nov 6th 2017 at 8:17:39 PM

Uh, no he absolutely did. He won by blasting Hit with a Kamehameha through Hit's time dimension, same way Jiren was able to punch him in their fight. I mean, they were both lying on the ground and recovered quickly afterwards, but it's not ambiguous that Goku won that fight. He beat Hit's time dimension, which was the main thing Hit was using in that fight.


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