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Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#67976: Nov 6th 2017 at 9:29:08 AM

"Blue is strong enough to fight people who are as strong as Blue." - Ironclad reasoning, right here.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#67977: Nov 6th 2017 at 9:41:30 AM

[up][up]Yeah but that came at the cost of Hit and Zamasu being far less interesting.

This song needs more love.
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#67978: Nov 6th 2017 at 9:55:11 AM

Fused Zamasu and Rosé Black doing the Spirit Bomb just feels so WRONG.

Even Cell doing it doesn't feel as wrong.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#67979: Nov 6th 2017 at 12:01:35 PM

How tall would you say Kafla is? It seems to be a thing that fused characters are much taller than either of their components. Gotenks is closer to Krillin's height than either Goten or Trunks, Merged Zamasu was much taller than Goku, and Vegetto was close to Buuhan's height and about even with Merged Zamasu (before he started growing).

Based on her little bout against Goku, Kafla looked to me like she was about as tall as him, if not an inch taller or shorter. Impressive, given that Kale and Caulifla are both shorter than Vegeta in base.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#67980: Nov 6th 2017 at 12:40:36 PM

Yeah but that came at the cost of Hit and Zamasu being far less interesting.

Where you the one who said more powerful characters ended up less interesting a few days ago?

Besides, Manga Hit and Zamasu are the same character as Anime Hit and Zamasu. This type of complaint makes more sense when aimed as Goku Black, because he had the same personality as Zamasu there, and Zamasu was never the interesting one of the pair.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#67981: Nov 6th 2017 at 12:53:37 PM

[up]No I said interesting villains lose what makes them interesting when they get stronger (eg. Imperfect Cell to Perfect Cell). Powerful characters are not less interesting by default.

edited 6th Nov '17 1:24:43 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#67982: Nov 6th 2017 at 1:13:40 PM

To be honest, Imperfect Cell's personality felt to me as "do everything to absorb the androids". His crafty side only appeared when overpowered, when he was the strongest one, he channeled Freeza in the same way as his perfect form.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#67983: Nov 6th 2017 at 1:25:11 PM

No I said interesting villains lose what makes them interesting when they get stronger (Eg. Imperfect Cell to Perfect Cell). Powerful characters are not less interesting by default

Oh. Well, I stand by what I said earlier. Hit and Zamasu aren't any less interesting than they were in the anime, only Goku Black is because he became a carbon copy of the less interesting Zamasu.

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#67984: Nov 6th 2017 at 1:38:20 PM

how dare you diss perfect cell

perfect cell is such a good villain

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#67985: Nov 6th 2017 at 1:39:06 PM

Yea, but they don't feel as threatening to Goku or Vegeta.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#67986: Nov 6th 2017 at 1:40:00 PM

Eh I don't like how Hit is weaker than Goku in the manga.

Also that the scream he did was an actual power-up instead of just being for showmanship with no actual power increase.

[up] Yup thats why.

edited 6th Nov '17 1:40:32 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#67987: Nov 6th 2017 at 1:43:14 PM

Disliking them being weaker is one thing, and not a concern of mine, but they aren't less interesting because they have smaller numbers. Goku Black is less interesting because he's just Zamasu again, and Zamasu was never interesting.

edited 6th Nov '17 1:44:07 PM by VeryMelon

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#67988: Nov 6th 2017 at 1:45:53 PM

[up][up][up][up]Real talk: Cell in all of his forms is my second favorite villain in the franchise (Frieza just slightly beats him out). I just think that Imperfect is more interesting (though they both beat Semi-Perfect).

Part of what made Hit interesting for me was how he and Goku are so dead even with each other, they're constantly improving themselves and each other. Having Goku be unarguably stronger than Hit ruins that dynamic. Also when I said Zamasu, I meant all versions of him, including Goku Black.

edited 6th Nov '17 1:46:09 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#67989: Nov 6th 2017 at 1:47:56 PM

Well that's just difference of opinion we have here. I care less than little for Hit's dynamic with Goku, and Zamasu was never interesting to me until Goku Black starting acting more like the mortals he keeps looking down on.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#67990: Nov 6th 2017 at 2:06:15 PM

Hit's dynamic is important to the character & part of what makes him interesting. He has a sweet worthy opponent relationship with Goku & to take that away would render him a simple aloof badass out of his league.

edited 6th Nov '17 2:08:23 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#67991: Nov 6th 2017 at 2:10:44 PM

I think Hit is likeable without being in Goku's league. Some parts, like Goku forfeiting, have more weight if he could beat Hit.

I also think manga Black is interesting enough. I don't remember anime Black being much more exciting.

TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#67993: Nov 6th 2017 at 3:24:47 PM

so is Ultra Instinct something completely separate from typical Super Saiyan transformations?

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#67994: Nov 6th 2017 at 3:32:20 PM

Its actually not a transformation, its more like a technique.

In a way it resembles more the Kaioken than a Super Saiyan.

So yes I believe.

edited 6th Nov '17 3:32:38 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#67995: Nov 6th 2017 at 3:32:58 PM

Anime Black acts less like a child and has Nozawa's dulcet tones backing him.

I dunno, the manga just makes them feel so much less exciting. It certainly "makes more sense", but that doesn't always make things more interesting or exciting to the viewer.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#67996: Nov 6th 2017 at 3:36:01 PM

It's mentioned that the gods can't easily attain Ultra Instinct but they can do it so no, it's not related to Super Saiyan (though it might be possible to combine the two).

This song needs more love.
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#67997: Nov 6th 2017 at 3:37:04 PM

so is Ultra Instinct something completely separate from typical Super Saiyan transformations?

From what we can tell it's the "letting your body move without thinking" technique Whis was talking about back in Resurrection F.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#67998: Nov 6th 2017 at 3:37:35 PM

Anime Black acts less like a child and has Nozawa's dulcet tones backing him.

I dunno, the manga just makes them feel so much less exciting. It certainly "makes more sense", but that doesn't always make things more interesting or exciting to the viewer.

Remember this conversation started because someone complained about Super Saiyan Blue never defeating anyone in the anime, only for the manga to be rebuffed when Blue is shown to be better than the opponents it fights.

I don't care if someone prefers the anime over the manga or vise-versa since it's ultimately the same story, I just hope people make up their minds on what they want.

edited 6th Nov '17 3:40:21 PM by VeryMelon

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#67999: Nov 6th 2017 at 3:47:37 PM

Since when does manga Black act childish?

I also think he's distinct from F Zamasu since he maintains his composure better.

Also, Ultra Instict is a technique that exists separately from Super Saiyan. However, what Goku does isn't necessarily just Ultra Instinct. It's referred to as 'Omen' and it causes physical changes in his appearance plus gives off a heat that Whis is uncertain about.

Rather than achieving Ultra Instinct, he appears to have achieved a new form that grants Ultra Instinct in addition to a huge power boost. This form is likely related to Super Saiyan.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#68000: Nov 6th 2017 at 3:51:20 PM

Wait I thought Manga Black was the one prone to temper tantrums & it was Manga Zamasu that stayed calm under pressure.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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