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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#67476: Nov 1st 2017 at 12:47:35 PM

As long as these people don't excuse Freeza's 4 months or Roshi's anything I'm fine with it.

MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#67477: Nov 1st 2017 at 1:44:20 PM

[up][up]The Boo saga is from Dragon Ball Z. Therefore, it is immune to criticism.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#67478: Nov 1st 2017 at 1:50:23 PM

[up][up][up]After dwelling somewhat into youtube dragon ball videos, I can confidently say that one can rarely find a group of people more myopic and full of shit than the people who make dragon ball videos on youtube.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#67479: Nov 1st 2017 at 1:51:45 PM

I don't think that's hypocrisy. Well, it'less about the hard work and more about how easily justifiable it is.

For Goten and Trunks, they were established as training in the method that Goku/Gohan did and ended up significantly weaker than Gohan was at only 1-2 years younger than him. They mastered Super Saiyan by constantly sparring with each other, leading to massive growth as already established. And Gohan's whole potential thing helps set up their potential even though they're new characters.

Kale and Caulifa did so in a far shorter time, Caulifa also got Super Saiyan 2 with ease and Kale got a unique form that only required some confidence to control. And now they're letting them get stronger at a much faster rate. They don't have anything established to support this unlike Goten/Trunks.

[up]x3 also this

edited 1st Nov '17 1:52:26 PM by Saiga

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#67480: Nov 1st 2017 at 2:07:53 PM

To be fair, Caulifla and Kale both unlocked Super Saiyan in a couple of hours, if not shorter time. We have no idea how long Goten and Trunks had it.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#67481: Nov 1st 2017 at 2:09:34 PM

I've always used that there alternate universe Saiyan's so there a little different.

Even if Cabba unlocked the form in the normal rage mode.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#67482: Nov 1st 2017 at 3:22:38 PM

But...but...b-but...Caulifla's a prodigy!!!!

So it's fine!!

edited 1st Nov '17 5:34:51 PM by hardcorefakes

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#67483: Nov 1st 2017 at 3:24:01 PM

Yeah that complaint holds no merit for me. Other characters get BS power-ups all of the time, it's not unique to them. They got Super Saiyan (and Berserk and 2) so that they could be somewhat up to speed with everyone else and that's it.

edited 1st Nov '17 3:24:45 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#67484: Nov 1st 2017 at 3:25:13 PM

Goten and Trunks unlocked Super Saiyan with no effort at all because "prodigies lol". The sanctity of turning into a Super Saiyan has not been a thing ever since Vegeta complained about Super Saiyan Bargain Basement Sales, but it has super not been a thing ever since Cabba was considered a scrub for not even being able to go Super Saiyan.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#67485: Nov 1st 2017 at 3:31:34 PM

Well, that kind of makes sense. Vegeta and Cabba were basically even in base so it's not a stretch for him to assume someone that strong should have already unlocked the transformation. It's just a natural progression sort of thing.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#67487: Nov 1st 2017 at 3:49:35 PM

I like Caulifa (Kale is still meh), but even I can't really shake the "eehhhh" of them constantly being granted transformation after transformation, with the only explanation being "lol prodigy". Goten & Trunks, like Saiga said, were said to constantly spar with each other, so it's not unfounded they couldn't do it. And even then, it was acknowledged in-universe at how abnormal it was for them to be Super Saiyans at such a young age.

You can call bullshit on Roshi, and it is bullshit, but they at least showed him training before the Tournament (now if we're going by ROF and before, then sure lol)

edited 1st Nov '17 3:49:52 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#67488: Nov 1st 2017 at 4:22:41 PM

Previous BS does not justify further BS

Goten and Trunks were said to have Super Saiyan for a while unlike the hours that Kale and Caulifa had. Also, hybrids were already established as prodigies using Gohan.

I can accept some level of compromise so new characters aren't completely irrelevant, but they went waaaaaaay past that with those two.

The most prodigious pure Saiyans we have are Goku and Vegeta and the two are waaaaaay outstripping their progression in a ridiculous span of time.

edited 1st Nov '17 4:24:10 PM by Saiga

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#67489: Nov 1st 2017 at 4:27:29 PM

Again I'm just using alternate universe Saiyan biology or some such shit.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#67490: Nov 1st 2017 at 4:29:37 PM

[up][up] I never said it did, but they still justified their bullshit. That's still more than we can say about what they've been doing with Caulifa and Kale.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#67491: Nov 1st 2017 at 4:33:19 PM

Oh, that wasnt in response to you

I dont even find goten and trunks BS because everything about them builds off either Gohan or SSFP training.

If anything they're still underwhelming compared to Gohan. Come the time that passed since Super, and they're significantly older than CG Gohan with nothing to show for it.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#67492: Nov 1st 2017 at 4:35:42 PM

That's more of a result of them getting shafted than anything, but yea. Tis a shame.

Its so annoying too because I want to like these Saiyan girls, but they're making it extremely hard to.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#67493: Nov 1st 2017 at 4:38:21 PM

Previous BS does not justify further BS

It doesn't but it does create a double standard.

We also don't know how strong Caulifla and Kale were prior to getting Super Saiyan.

This song needs more love.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#67494: Nov 1st 2017 at 4:45:49 PM

It's only a double standard if you accept the previous BS without complaint.

And how strong they were prior doesn't help, because if they were super duper strong before getting Super Saiyan that calls into question HOW they got so strong without SS training and stuff.

The Boo arc base Saiyans had all made massive gains due to the SS sparring training and SS mastery. To be on par without having the forms that allowed such training is quite questionable.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#67495: Nov 1st 2017 at 4:49:33 PM

Barring the fact that Goten and Trunks both got and mastered Super Saiyan by the age of 6, and got the form to begin with without having to use the rage requirement at all.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#67496: Nov 1st 2017 at 4:57:24 PM

WE INTERRUPT THIS DISCUSSION OF POWERUPS TO BRING YOU A SPECIAL BROADCAST FROM THE GOVERNMENT OF PLANET NAMEK... ON POWERUPS:

Moori: This thing on? Ahem, yes. Good afternoon. We of Namek feel that we have been silent on this issue far too long. It is time for us to stand up and say that, yes, the hoarding of powerups by the Earthbound Saiyan community is unfair and unjust. The Earthbound Saiyan community represent an infinitesimal percentage of the population of our fair universe, and yet they and they alone have access to 90% of the powerups. We do not deny the importance of the Saiyans in keeping this universe safe - it was they who freed us from the yoke of the Planet Trade Organization, after all - but we feel they have become complacent and greedy. The hoarding of powerups by Saiyans weakens our fair universe in the face of its now greatest challenge - we are all Universe 7 citizens, and we should all depend on each other for strength, not put our trust in a band of unelected beings who by mere chance were born extremely privileged with respect to powerups. Let us not forget that we NAMEKIANS provided resources that were just as valuable as the Saiyans' raw strength in saving this universe! It is time to say that, yes, the restriction of powerups to the few is a restriction, not an asset. We are ALL Universe 7 citizens! LET MY NAMEKIANS POWER UP!

edited 1st Nov '17 5:01:07 PM by HamburgerTime

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#67497: Nov 1st 2017 at 4:59:14 PM

[up] nah fuck that

[up][up] 7 and 8. Gohan had Super Saiyan 2 at 9.

Circumventing the rage requirement is the only part I see as sketchy, but the Android arc sets this up with Gohan having an easier time reaching the rage and Future Trunks having the form before Gohan's death.

edited 1st Nov '17 5:01:39 PM by Saiga

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#67498: Nov 1st 2017 at 5:02:48 PM

Correction, he got both Super Saiyan AND Super Saiyan 2 at 9 and within days of each other.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#67499: Nov 1st 2017 at 5:06:15 PM

Months, not days: part of his Super Saiyan training was spent in the time chamber.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#67500: Nov 1st 2017 at 5:07:56 PM

Not so sure about Future Trunks though; Super seems to be going with the anime special being the canon version, so he only got the form after Future Gohan died.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!

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