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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66951: Oct 25th 2017 at 7:44:01 AM

Yes, consistency was kind of odd there.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#66952: Oct 25th 2017 at 7:50:50 AM

[up][up]I was unclear about which part of my post you were referring to. Although it doesn't really matter whether Saiyan Beyond God is widely accepted or not. There's far too much evidence for it to not exist at this point. It's like gravity, we see the side effects of it, and we can measure how strong it is and how it works, we just have yet to find any conclusive proof of what causes it or where it comes from (though there are theories).

Gehayadren Bad Movie Binge Collector from A Garbage Fire Since: Jun, 2016 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#66953: Oct 25th 2017 at 8:09:36 AM

Sorry for beating a dead horse, but I kinda agree that some of the more relevant humans could get Kaioken. Just the relevant ones, so Yamcha doesn't get it.

Ha ha ha. What a story, Mark.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#66954: Oct 25th 2017 at 8:12:18 AM

I don't know why people act like the Kiaoken is some magic cure for leveling the playing field.

edited 25th Oct '17 8:12:30 AM by LSBK

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#66955: Oct 25th 2017 at 8:15:29 AM

What are you guys talking about....

... oh, this again.

As always, I have no problem with humans being weak and irrelevant, and I'm honestly a bit confused by how obsessed a portion of the fanbase is about this issue.

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#66956: Oct 25th 2017 at 8:16:48 AM

I think what the series needs to do is establish some way for Humans and Namekians to get on god-tier power levels

like, it wouldn't be impossible. but until the series says "here's how they get to this power level" any attempts to bridge the gap will be pointless since it'll just be seen as Super trying to brush scaling under the rug

Super Saiyan God was the way to bridge that gap for Saiyans, Golden form Freiza for, well, Freiza (and all frost demons really). Now just add in, like, Divine Namekian for Piccolo and something for humans. though the series is really hesitant on giving humans any sort of cool things.

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#66957: Oct 25th 2017 at 8:21:05 AM

The only humans who could probably use Kaioken without fucking up their bodies would probably be Uub, 17, 18 and maybe Krillin, and I don't know if they could go past the higher multipliers. It'd be easier to go through Elder Kai's ritual, just sit for a day and boom, ultimate power. That reminds me, why didn't Krillin use that power-up he got in episode 76 for the tournament? It's no Ultra Instinct, but it could've helped him a lot if he actually used it.

Piccolo could probably use Kaioken efficiently since his body regenerates, but I'm not sure if he has the stamina to do that constantly. Or he could just unlock the Red-Eye transformation, if they ever canonize that...

edited 25th Oct '17 8:24:33 AM by Rinsankajugin

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#66958: Oct 25th 2017 at 8:22:43 AM

Heroes gave god forms to Androids, Namekians, and Majins.

This song needs more love.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66959: Oct 25th 2017 at 8:23:20 AM

I don't get how Kaioken fixes anything...it just multiplies your base power level, so they'd still be weak.

I've never seen a fanbase more obsessed with its side characters than Dragon Ball's lol.

[up] Its also not canon.

edited 25th Oct '17 8:23:47 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#66960: Oct 25th 2017 at 8:27:22 AM

[up]I think the hold up is that most of these side-characters weren't even side characters originally. Characters like Krillin were straight up main characters up through even most of Z.

So it sucks to see characters that used to get a lot of focus just not get focus anymore, and become more and more irrelevant as the plot's power scaling leaves them behind with no apparent way to catch them up or anything.

edited 25th Oct '17 8:28:11 AM by EpicBleye

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#66961: Oct 25th 2017 at 8:27:40 AM

[up][up]So is Broly. Didn't stop anyone from referencing him.

edited 25th Oct '17 8:28:06 AM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#66962: Oct 25th 2017 at 8:28:43 AM

Seriously, back on Namek Kaioken x 20 would only bring Krillin to half of Goku power, and the gap only widened since then.

Not to be snarky, but sometimes it feels like they are people that don't even like what Dragon Ball is and would rather change it into something way different.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#66963: Oct 25th 2017 at 8:30:03 AM

This topic is annoying as fuck, lets move on.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#66964: Oct 25th 2017 at 8:32:19 AM

Fine then, you guys think Caulifa will go SSJ 3 next episode?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#66965: Oct 25th 2017 at 8:46:19 AM

[up][up][up]Yeah, but nowadays, Kaioken x 20 would allow the humans to fight opponents who are slightly weaker than Super Saiyan 1 Goku. If Krillin had Kaioken x 20, he might've been able to defeat Frost. It wouldn't just be used to put them on the same level as the base Saiyans because they're already on that level right now.

[up]Not with the spoilers: Kafla might.

edited 25th Oct '17 8:47:03 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#66966: Oct 25th 2017 at 8:53:17 AM

It's three episodes until Kafla, a lot can happen in the meantime.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#66967: Oct 25th 2017 at 8:58:06 AM

I'm guessing 113 is Goku vs Caulifla for the first half and Goku vs Caulifla and Kale for the second half.

The episode after that, 114, will be Goku vs Caulifla and Kale for the first half, then the U3 Megazord shows up and Kafla appears to beat it. Remember that 114 mentions a New Super Warrior, so Kafla's first appearance will be in that one.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66968: Oct 25th 2017 at 9:13:03 AM

Frost is stronger than Piccolo though, so how would Kaioken x20 help all that much.

As for Caulifa, why not. They're giving her every other form under the sun.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#66969: Oct 25th 2017 at 9:16:31 AM

Caulifa is a prodigy like Gohan, she will get stronger with no training or effort at all. tongue

"Mai waifu."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#66970: Oct 25th 2017 at 9:22:15 AM

Ha I just love that Toppo of all people roasted Veggie. Justice Roast bitches. [lol]

Though the Pride Trooper now has his work cut out for him cause he just pushed the Goku button.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#66971: Oct 25th 2017 at 9:30:36 AM

[up][up][up]Frost was stronger than Piccolo back in the U6 arc, back when both were weaker than Super Saiyan 1 Goku. Nowadays, Frost had gotten a bit stronger (compare his performance against SS1 Goku to against SS1 Vegeta recently and there's a noticeable difference) while Piccolo has gotten enormously stronger, more so than Super Saiyan 2 Gohan.

edited 25th Oct '17 9:32:34 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#66972: Oct 25th 2017 at 9:36:10 AM

Piccolo was stronger than SSJ 2 Gohan who was at Gohan's Buu saga level of power, not current Gohan who is near Goku level.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#66973: Oct 25th 2017 at 9:39:24 AM

So, on the B-team, just have them deal with weaker antagonists. Chiaotzu worked wonderfully as Krillin's opponent in his debut, after all. I'm not saying everybody should get to Goku's level, as Goku is always a step ahead (and Vegeta catching up almost inmediately is quite refreshing as a concept). But seeing some sort of progress in the other martial artists wouldn't be unwelcome. After all, in the 23rd Tenkaichi, Goku and Piccolo were far ahead of everybody, but Krillin vs. Piccolo was an enjoyable fight and not a slaughter, and Tien vs. Taopaipai showed how far everybody had came, even if Goku was far ahead.

In my opinion, the non-Saiyans shouldn't feel fragile, but they shouldn't feel like a match for the main antagonist.

And, on Super's power scaling, after seeing the manga go with Toppo having God Ki, I think I'll wait for its take before jumping to conclusions.

edited 25th Oct '17 9:40:55 AM by Eriorguez

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#66974: Oct 25th 2017 at 9:46:22 AM

[up][up]Yeah, and I'm factoring in Saiyan Beyond God, so current Goku isn't that much stronger than he was during the Buu Saga. One only needs to look at Goku and Gohan's little spar at the beginning of Krillin's two-parter before this arc started for evidence. In it, Goku had a slight but not completely overwhelming advantage over Gohan when they were sparring in Super Saiyan 1.

edited 25th Oct '17 9:49:18 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#66975: Oct 25th 2017 at 10:00:13 AM

Ah yes, the elusive Sayian Beyond God.

Leaving that aside, it's obvious that Goku was just playing around with Gohan there and purposefully keep himself to his level. Because even if Goku was only slightly above his Buu saga level, Gohan was still rusty at that point and well below his own Buu saga level, so Goku should have stomped him regardless. So no, you can't really use that "fight" as a proof of anything.


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