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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#66826: Oct 24th 2017 at 8:07:52 AM

Only Zen-Oh is allowed to flagrantly break his own rules.

TwistedGear Don't know how to pilot this thing Since: Jun, 2014
Don't know how to pilot this thing
#66827: Oct 24th 2017 at 8:22:27 AM

[up][up] How would it make all of it pointless? The consequences would go from "several universes are gone" to "Several universes are gone, and now universe 7 is filled to the brim with new heros and villians from those universes." it's lose-lose in universe (save for our heros having a clear conscious) and win-win on narrative level.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#66828: Oct 24th 2017 at 8:56:52 AM

Reversing the damage at the end of an arc is one of the things DB is best known for.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#66829: Oct 24th 2017 at 8:58:28 AM

Aside from those poor bastards who get ignored like all of East City and possibly everyone on those islands Cell blew up.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#66830: Oct 24th 2017 at 9:14:09 AM

Zeno is that easy to convince then all this "who will be erased" stuff becomes nothing but pseudo-drama. Well, you could argue it was always that, but we're ignoring that right now. Should have just let Goku talk to him at the beginning then.

It's no more a "win" for the narrative because it's not like traveling between dimensions was impossible before, and if that was there end game they could have just done that, and also had the tournament with trying to create such fake drama.

My issue isn't the other universes or their people being saved, it's how they're going to do it is most likely going to be unsatisfying. If they had been talking about bringing them back earlier or convincing Zeno or something that would be one thing, but going "They make the wish and then nothing bad happens because why not" is just really stupid. Not that I don't think it has a high chance of happening, but that doesn't make it better.

edited 24th Oct '17 9:15:21 AM by LSBK

TwistedGear Don't know how to pilot this thing Since: Jun, 2014
Don't know how to pilot this thing
#66831: Oct 24th 2017 at 10:05:26 AM

[up] There's plenty of consiquences that could come from combining all the erased universes populations into universe 7. Plenty of potential for new villians, and rivalries from the tournament could carry over easier since their all in the same universe now, where-as before they'd need the assistance of their universes angel or Go D. Not to mention the possibilities of the now former Go Ds challenging Beerus's position.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#66832: Oct 24th 2017 at 10:08:22 AM

None of that actually requires merging the universes though. Zamasu was from Universe 10 remember?

Yeah, you could say they might be able to do all of this and that but there's no real reason to think the universes being separated was necessary for that. And you don't need threat of erasure to do that either.

This entire thing has been pretty poorly plotted. I'm not going to say it can't end well, but nothing about the situation, the context surrounding it, or Super in general, leads me to have much hope for it.

edited 24th Oct '17 10:09:38 AM by LSBK

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#66833: Oct 24th 2017 at 10:13:23 AM

I'd argue that, were the universes to stay erased in their entirety, the whole thing would just be pointless in the other direction. Why introduce all of this just to get rid of it? Why does the tournament matter? Why does Jiren matter? The epilogue still has to happen. The U7 team can't get erased (permanently).

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#66834: Oct 24th 2017 at 10:16:18 AM

Well, one of my points is that they shouldn't have added erasing the universes, and didn't need to for this to be a thing so that doesn't really hurt my argument.

Yes, that's a stupid premise to add in the first place and it only makes giving this a satisfying ending that makes sense harder.

edited 24th Oct '17 10:17:56 AM by LSBK

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#66835: Oct 24th 2017 at 10:54:54 AM

So, the real answer is that they should've started from the end of Z.

So the outcome isn't written on the can.

edited 24th Oct '17 10:55:48 AM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#66836: Oct 24th 2017 at 11:03:36 AM

Even then, the show is unlikely to end with the untimely erasure of the entire cast.

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#66837: Oct 24th 2017 at 11:06:16 AM

it could happen. it's happened before

edited 24th Oct '17 11:06:50 AM by EpicBleye

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#66838: Oct 24th 2017 at 11:22:25 AM

[up][up]No show has the acorns to do something so good like that.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#66839: Oct 24th 2017 at 11:34:27 AM

@Gehayadren, previous page: I see your Spongebob and Donald, and raise you Ed.

edited 24th Oct '17 11:34:46 AM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#66841: Oct 24th 2017 at 11:50:24 AM

There's like, a whole series of Goku challenging other cartoon characters not commonly thought of as fighters and getting his ass kicked. Like so. Here's more.

edited 24th Oct '17 11:53:55 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#66842: Oct 24th 2017 at 11:51:43 AM

Zen-o's gripe is that there are too many universes, but he doesn't give a crap about the people within the universes. I doubt he would be angry if the winner used their wish to go "okay, all the universes are destroyed but all the people are resurrected in my universe."

I agree that whoever wins fusing all the universes into one is a distinct possibility to end this arc - it turns Universe 7 into a full fledged Adventure-Friendly World again - it never stopped being one, but years of worldbuilding has made it a bit smaller than it was, and that would make much of it an unknown again. I've been guessing that the next arc after this one would be "adventures throughout the multiverse" anyway, and if that happens they could do something like that without even having to leave Universe 7.

It's not the only narrative option by far, though.

edited 24th Oct '17 11:58:28 AM by KnownUnknown

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#66843: Oct 24th 2017 at 12:14:04 PM

It is true that Goku and company beating up every big time threat in the galaxy has shrunk the universe a bit, in addition to all the genociding dickholes genociding things, and Shin doing little to fix it.

One Strip! One Strip!
TwistedGear Don't know how to pilot this thing Since: Jun, 2014
Don't know how to pilot this thing
#66844: Oct 24th 2017 at 12:18:18 PM

[up] Why was piccolo scared of Shin in the buu saga again?

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#66845: Oct 24th 2017 at 12:19:17 PM

Because his position is supposed to mean something. And, I mean, he legitimately was completely out of Piccolo's league so...

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#66846: Oct 24th 2017 at 12:20:38 PM

[up][up]I'm not even sure anymore. It seemed like Shin was supposed to be stronger, but that may have been retconned more to Piccolo just being freaked out by the Supreme Kai showing up to an earthly tournament.

Edit: [nja]'ed, but I think [up] answers it better.

Speaking of Supreme Kais, I just noticed we don't have a single female among them in all the universes. Not too big of a deal since the angels have more variety, but with only one female god of destruction, it stands out a little.

edited 24th Oct '17 12:21:09 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#66847: Oct 24th 2017 at 12:21:41 PM

I'm assuming Toriyama intended for Shin to be an antagonist till he came up with Buu & then did a complete switch of the former's characterization.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#66848: Oct 24th 2017 at 12:21:52 PM

There's been nothing to indicate that Piccolo was stronger than him then. Retconned what?

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#66849: Oct 24th 2017 at 12:23:15 PM

I thought Universe 5's Supreme Kai was female?

edited 24th Oct '17 12:23:30 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#66850: Oct 24th 2017 at 12:25:39 PM

Nope, the kai of U5 is ...

Whoa. Thought that was a dude. My bad. So we have one female Supreme Kai. Go figure.

One Strip! One Strip!

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