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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#66326: Oct 15th 2017 at 12:59:35 PM

I wonder if some of us (and by some of us, I mean mostly myself) are a little too stuck on that subverting expectations thing.

Sure, looking back, Dragonball did a lot of crazy things that most people wouldn't have expected back then (which then became more the norm), but it's not like Toriyama would basically derail the narrative of his story just to surprise people...well beyond the thing with Gohan, and that one is probably a little debatable.

One Strip! One Strip!
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#66327: Oct 15th 2017 at 1:51:21 PM

Seinfeld is Unfunny is a trope on our wiki for a reason.

Dragon Ball did do things that most writers wouldn't do back then however some of the very tropes that Toriyama used to subvert expectations has been done better by other writers who were inspired by him. The tropes that are used in Dragon Ball have now been used by every writer since Dragon Ball and they have now become the staples of most Jump manga.

"Mai waifu."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#66328: Oct 15th 2017 at 1:58:18 PM

So what do you guys think of my new profile pic?

I'm asking cause its a little relevant. tongue

edited 15th Oct '17 1:58:46 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#66329: Oct 15th 2017 at 2:17:52 PM

[up]You look like you'll crush all our arguments just by looking at us funny.tongue

One Strip! One Strip!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#66330: Oct 15th 2017 at 2:18:45 PM

I do think it's funny that Jiren stopped Hit's attack by literally looking at it funny.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#66331: Oct 15th 2017 at 2:32:42 PM

[up]

You should, because it is. The closest we've had is Goku and Tien stopping Ki attacks using Kiais.

Also, both a discussion with a family member and a discussion on the DBZA thread got me to thinking about something

Maybe the way Jiren will be defeated is via the one thing nobody has considered against him: teamwork.

Yeah, I know. Teamwork almost never works in DB. In most cases—Raditz being one of the few exceptions—if the other guy is stronger than both warriors together, then it doesn't matter if they team up, they'll still lose.

However, if Toriyama really wants to surprise us, then maybe he can find a way to weaken Jiren enough that a united front might actually take him down.

Of course, there's also the issue of Goku and Vegeta being too much MAH PRIDE!!! (especially Vegeta) to consider that. It's traditionally taken a lot for them to toss out their own Blood Knight tendencies and work as a team, usually when things are so bad that they literally have no other options.

But still, I'm hoping he'd consider it. When was the last time teamwork ever mattered in dragon ball?

Edit: Well, beyond the ending that is.

edited 15th Oct '17 2:54:04 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#66332: Oct 15th 2017 at 2:39:41 PM

Pffft, teamwork.

It's obvious that Jiren undoing will his writing Goku off and not finishing him while the letter is weakened. Goku will master Ultra Instinct that come back for round two.

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#66333: Oct 15th 2017 at 2:41:22 PM

That scene when everyone thought Goku was dead at least seemed like everyone would be willing to gang up on Jiren. Not that I see it really happening or working but it would be cool.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66334: Oct 15th 2017 at 2:42:41 PM

Yea, nobody really gave a fuck how strong Jiren was. I honestly thought that was a great moment.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#66335: Oct 15th 2017 at 2:45:34 PM

Too bad Jiren also gives no fucks if weaklings want to dog pile him.

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#66336: Oct 15th 2017 at 2:47:42 PM

[up][up] It was definitely the most powerful moment of the arc so far.

BigBlackBangBro Time Stranger Since: Sep, 2016
Time Stranger
#66337: Oct 15th 2017 at 2:54:31 PM

Perhaps no one will beat Jiren but U7 will still win by having the most memebers in.

35 year old white man.
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#66338: Oct 15th 2017 at 2:58:48 PM

I really have a feeling time is gonna run out anyway. If it wasn't going to be a factor then why have it at all and not just have them fight till only onw universe is left.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#66339: Oct 15th 2017 at 2:59:17 PM

I honestly wanted to see Jiren just body every other universe by himself.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#66340: Oct 15th 2017 at 3:00:30 PM

He might have to if Dyspo & Toppo get knocked out.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BigBlackBangBro Time Stranger Since: Sep, 2016
Time Stranger
#66341: Oct 15th 2017 at 3:11:57 PM

Man once again we have a moment where a character can end something quickly but chooses not too. Some things never change in Dragon ball

35 year old white man.
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#66342: Oct 15th 2017 at 3:30:31 PM

So what do you guys think of my new profile pic? I'm asking cause its a little relevant. tongue

It's like Jiren is wearing nothing at all. Nothing at all. Nothing at all.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#66343: Oct 15th 2017 at 4:06:57 PM

You know, people complain about Vegeta not going to Planet Sadala in U6, but I'm more annoyed that they never considered the Metalman homeworld in U7 for contestants for the Tournament of Power. Never even answered the question if they existed.

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#66344: Oct 15th 2017 at 4:16:26 PM

[up] Tell that to the writing staff. tongue

"Mai waifu."
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#66345: Oct 15th 2017 at 4:21:17 PM

The PTO's weakness was that they'd take their scouter readings as the final answer, without considering things such as power repression or power-boosting techniques.

Which is pretty weird because the strongest people in the organization could do just that.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#66346: Oct 15th 2017 at 4:23:00 PM

[up]

I assume it must have been really rare. That's why so many were caught off guard by it, even the ones who should have known.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#66347: Oct 15th 2017 at 9:24:54 PM

After rewatching Goku vs Toppo, it's apparent that while Toppo was caught off-guard by Blue's power, he was also holding back. Goku took a quick advantage early on and got Toppo with a few cheap shots near the end, but they were dead even for most of the fight. Toppo didn't even power up with an aura until Goku's Kamehameha damaged his uniform, at which point he and Goku squared off, with Goku using Kaioken. Factoring in Goku saying that he wasn't sure if he could beat Toppo in a later episode, and it seems pretty obvious where Toppo stands: somewhere around Goku's higher levels of Blue Kaioken when at max power.

edited 15th Oct '17 9:38:20 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#66348: Oct 15th 2017 at 9:33:29 PM

He specifically said he didn't know if he could win with Blue, which makes it sound like he wasn't talking about Kaio-ken.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#66349: Oct 15th 2017 at 9:36:16 PM

Maybe, I don't know if Goku makes a distinction between Blue and Blue Kaioken as separate forms, though.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#66350: Oct 15th 2017 at 9:37:39 PM

I feel like Kaio-ken would be the more relevant thing to mention if that was included, since he no longer uses it without Blue.


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