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BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#6551: Jun 1st 2014 at 6:06:44 PM

[up]I'm just talking about Gine specifically. He has a bad habit of making his female characters just walking uteruses.

I wouldn't have as much of a problem with her if it wasn't already established that saiyans aren't docile, period. I mean... you could at least say she fought ofscreen or something instead of just outright saying "she can't fight, Stay in the Kitchen". Literally, she's just a lunchlady remember.

edited 1st Jun '14 6:08:49 PM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#6552: Jun 1st 2014 at 6:38:31 PM

[up] I wouldn't call the females in Dragon Ball "walking uterus's". I think that's going a bit too far. I mean the female characters of the show play as big as a role as the plot will allow them:

  • Bulma: Super rich, super genius, capable of building anything, in one timeline she essentially saves the world by building freakin time machine and if you count GT, she was directly responsible for making Vegeta a Super Saiyan 4
  • Chi Chi: The strongest pure blooded female on the planet, trained Goten in martial arts and is very capable marital artist of her own.
  • Android 18: The strongest female character in all Dragon Ball. Kicked two Super Saiyans assess effortlessly and in one timeline, along with her brother, murder every major Z-Fighter and brings upon the End of the World as We Know It.
  • Videl: Could give Chi Chi a serious run for her money in fight and is a world renowned crime fighter and later become superhero

All of them eventually get married, have children and settle down to live peaceful and normal... to some extent. wink And, call me old fashioned, but the testosterone fueled, constantly doomed world that is Dragon Ball, isn't that what most women would want.

Dragon Ball does have a weak female cast, there's now denying. But I've said it before and I'll say it again, women always get dealt a lousy hand if they're are a character in a Shonen anime or manga. Naruto is probably the all-time worst example of how piss poorly you can manage your female characters. Literally every female character in Naruto is canon fodder.

And as far the role that a Saiyan would have to play it that Saiyan can't fight? If anything, Gine got off easy. Remember Tarble? That pacifistic bastard essentially got kicked of his own planet and sent to some God-forsaken planet in the galaxy, purely because he lacked aggression and couldn't fight.

edited 4th Jun '14 12:55:11 PM by FireShadow

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#6553: Jun 1st 2014 at 8:04:59 PM

"Online is canon."

Which is the "ruling" end-canon of Dragon Ball?

Dragon Ball GT, Dragon Ball Online, or Battle of Gods?

Notably ordered by level of Toriyama's supposed involvement.

edited 1st Jun '14 8:21:59 PM by FOFD

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#6554: Jun 1st 2014 at 8:35:12 PM

[up]Both Online and BoG are vocally confirmed, non-contradictory canon. GT is vocally confirmed non-canon.

[up][up]You've got a point. But it's still a pretty bad coincidence considering that other than the now-retconned Fasha, she's the only female saiyan we've seen.

I wouldn't've minded the chef thing if it came with some kind of ability other than that, especially considering the notoriety of saiyan appetites. But did he really have to outright say she sucked at fighting?

edited 1st Jun '14 8:37:00 PM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#6555: Jun 1st 2014 at 8:53:48 PM

[up] Didn't Toriyama state the the Saiyans in general are essentially assholes? What happened with Gine and Tarble pretty much backs it up.

If you're a female Saiyan and you suck at fighting, you become a Lunch Lady.

If you're a male Saiyan and you suck at fighting, you get kicked off the planet.

This is why if the Dragon Ball Universe was real and I could choose my race, I'd be a Majin.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#6556: Jun 2nd 2014 at 1:13:10 AM

Both Online and Bo G are vocally confirmed, non-contradictory canon. GT is vocally confirmed non-canon

This is 100% untrue. Nothing has been vocally confirmed canon or non-canon by anyone in any official capacity for the series.

RandomGuy96 Since: Apr, 2014
#6557: Jun 2nd 2014 at 2:06:48 AM

[up][up][up][up][up]The females never get fights except for Android #18, she is my favorite.

FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#6558: Jun 2nd 2014 at 2:34:22 PM

[up] Ranfan fought at the 21st Budokai Tenkaichi against Nam and Chi Chi battled Goku at the 23rd Budokai Tenkaichi... both of them lost pretty easily, but they put a good fight for whats its worth.

But the list of female characters in Shonen anime and manga that don't become Out of Focus, Cannon Fodder, Can't Catch Up, don't become a Broken Aesop and aren't Mary Sues isn't particularly long. But honestly it's a double standard because male characters get hit just as hard with those tropes as women do.

edited 2nd Jun '14 2:34:47 PM by FireShadow

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#6559: Jun 2nd 2014 at 3:13:52 PM

This is true.

Especially in this story.

Hell, when you think about it, Pan in GT shows that even a weak Saiyan will get more screen time then the strongest human.

One Strip! One Strip!
RandomGuy96 Since: Apr, 2014
#6560: Jun 2nd 2014 at 3:26:48 PM

[up][up]Chi-Chi got beaten straight away. Ran Fan? Actually I liked that one and will give you that, but overall didn't like original DB that much.

EDIT: Well not dislike original DB, but liked DBZ better

edited 3rd Jun '14 12:46:56 PM by RandomGuy96

FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#6561: Jun 2nd 2014 at 4:18:59 PM

[up] You didn't like the original mystical adventures of Son Goku and the Dragon Ball Gang? tongue

Blasphemy!

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#6562: Jun 2nd 2014 at 4:59:02 PM

Yeah. After all the discussions we've had about Z, I long ago realized that I think I like the simplicity of the original series better.

One Strip! One Strip!
RandomGuy96 Since: Apr, 2014
#6563: Jun 2nd 2014 at 5:20:20 PM

It was mostly the RRA stuff that bored me at times, because the fights were too easily.

I thought everything became great when Tien debuted.

edited 2nd Jun '14 5:50:03 PM by RandomGuy96

FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#6564: Jun 2nd 2014 at 5:23:51 PM

If any part of Dragon Ball truly deserved a HD remake it certainly would be the original adventures of Dragon Ball. It had so much hilarity, charm, originality and feeling of adventure and mystique about it... then Krillin died and King Piccolo debuted... And. Shit. Got. Real.

Then the Buu Arc happened...

edited 2nd Jun '14 5:26:01 PM by FireShadow

RandomGuy96 Since: Apr, 2014
#6565: Jun 2nd 2014 at 5:33:07 PM

I'd love to see a HD Version of King Piccolo. That arc was amazing and dark.

The tournament that came after it was good too, everyone got a cool moment there. That is why I like the Cell Arc when it comes to DBZ because it has more of an ensemble cast than the rest. Even with all its flaws like Toriyama coming up with new villains every five seconds.

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#6566: Jun 2nd 2014 at 8:05:34 PM

I need to rewatch the King Piccolo arc. I only saw it all the way through once, on Toonami.

Until then, Mercenary Tao is still my favorite Curb-Stomp Battle.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#6567: Jun 3rd 2014 at 2:44:30 AM

[up][up][up][up] Really? What about the 22nd Budokai did you like? For me, I only really liked Chaozu vs Kuririn. I feel Ten's development is just too rushed, so the Piccolo Daimao arc is when Dragon Ball starts getting good for me.

So I mostly agree, just differ by a single arc.tongue

edited 3rd Jun '14 2:45:40 AM by Saiga

RandomGuy96 Since: Apr, 2014
#6568: Jun 3rd 2014 at 3:49:59 AM

Tien development rushed? I don't think it is anymore rushed compared to Krillin or Piccolo. The fights feel more hardcore starting from the arc, like if someone gets beaten up, they are really getting beaten up. Jackie Chun/Goku is a close fight, but Chun is really his mentor, so you know there is no real stakes.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#6569: Jun 3rd 2014 at 3:51:18 AM

Well, yeah, but I thought those were too rushed as well. I sometimes even forget Kuririn had development because it happens so fast (although granted it does take a decent amount of time in-universe, we just don't really see it).

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#6570: Jun 3rd 2014 at 7:13:44 AM

You know what I'm sick of? The implication of "non-canon" meaning "irredeemably horrible and could not feasibly happen in any reality", because that's what it usually means especially in this fandom. Just my two cents.

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#6571: Jun 3rd 2014 at 7:38:28 AM

And this is why i will continue to recommend Inuyasha no matter what some people say. Kagome was great, Sango was great, Kagura was great, Kikyo was...well she was there.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#6572: Jun 3rd 2014 at 9:30:36 AM

Hell, when you think about it, Pan in GT shows that even a weak Saiyan will get more screen time then the strongest human.

She and Bra also showed that being a woman means you get to be the only post-Namek Saiyans to not become a Super Saiyan.

In Bra's defense, she displayed no interest in anything that may result in becoming a Super Saiyan, but Pan just got straight-up snubbed.

edited 3rd Jun '14 9:31:44 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#6573: Jun 3rd 2014 at 9:52:18 AM

They are muscular, blond, blue-eyed Super MEN, not super WOMEN.

Heil, Toriyama.

DoctorDiabolical So pure. Since: Mar, 2010
So pure.
#6574: Jun 3rd 2014 at 10:20:55 AM

[up][up][up][up] Agreed. Okay, so parts of the anime weren't Toriyama's story. But dammit, the anime team's story had some great moments too. First things that come to mind are the solid Garlic Jr. saga (which made Frieza's return much less abrupt, if nothing else), as well as the dead Z-Fighters taking on the Ginyu Force (which actually allowed them to show a degree of improvement in Z).

edited 3rd Jun '14 10:21:31 AM by DoctorDiabolical

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#6575: Jun 3rd 2014 at 10:39:22 AM

Toriyama didn't make GT. Someone else made the decision that no woman can be a Super Saiyan, and that makes it worse.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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