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Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#64976: Sep 26th 2017 at 6:04:35 PM

The bug dudes being super-tiny was my theory, too.

So I've equipped a QQ Bang item. That completely overrides my actual attire, yes, making it purely aesthetic? So now I can wear whatever I want with no regard to stats?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#64978: Sep 26th 2017 at 6:19:25 PM

Sweet, time to make myself as butt-ugly as possible.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#64979: Sep 26th 2017 at 6:38:07 PM

People talking about Goku vs Jiren, but the intro also gives us a Vegeta vs Ribrianne fight. This tells me that as butterfly Ribrianne she's going to be a serious opponent for Vegeta. Yes, even in SSB. She is hyped to be the strongest of her universe after all.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#64980: Sep 26th 2017 at 6:54:17 PM

So far, the fighting sequences in the OP have been reused for animation sequences in the episodes, and we've already seen Vegeta and Ribrianne have their clash from the intro. Sure, maybe it was implying that Vegeta VS Ribrianne is going to be some big climactic moment in the tournament, but the OP also showed Goku fighting Bergamo and while they did fight and it was cool, Bergamo was eliminated and then immediately erased from existence.

Maybe Vegeta VS Ribrianne is literally just their little clash that we've already seen.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#64981: Sep 26th 2017 at 7:02:39 PM

So random question, but do we know who's stronger between Hit and Berserk Kale?

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#64982: Sep 26th 2017 at 7:06:58 PM

Impossible to tell. Hit forced Goku to combine Kaioken with his Super Saiyan Blue form, and before that Hit could both trade and survive blows from a serious Super Saiyan Blue Goku.

Meanwhile, It's constantly established that Goku holds back tremendously during the Tournament of Power, even when he uses Super Saiyan Blue against anyone. Kale's only feat is tossing around and ignoring the Kamehameha of a not serious Goku.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#64983: Sep 26th 2017 at 7:08:58 PM

I ask because if Kale is stronger, then that calendar depicts the aces in the hole of all the remaining universes except 3 (next one out?).

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#64984: Sep 26th 2017 at 7:16:19 PM

What makes you think he's holding back when using Super Saiyan Blue in the tournament? (besides the fact that he can go even higher with Kaioken) From what I've seen Super Saiyan Blue has been reserved for moments when he goes serious against someone.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#64985: Sep 26th 2017 at 7:17:32 PM

Well, it also shows Caulifla, and there's no way she's stronger than Hit. To entertain your theory: maybe someone can teach or has taught Caulifla and Kale the Fusion Dance? Maybe Dr. Rota's actually a Metamoran.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#64986: Sep 26th 2017 at 7:19:27 PM

It's not really clear how strong Kale is supposed to be because her feats are a bit inconsistent and the framing makes it weird. Her Berserker debut had her putting Cabba on the ropes, but he clearly had no intention of fighting back against her. Caulifa is able to deflect one of her blasts as a SSJ 2, but that's not saying much.

Then her next feats are tossing around Goku in SSJB. But that's also meaningless since Goku's SSJB power is inconsistent due to how liberal he is with it and how the Anime keeps handwaving he's "holding back" but by how much is unclear.

Hit's power is much more consistent by comparison; we know he's skilled enough to trade blows with Goku & Vegeta in SSJB and not die, but he's hindered by the fact that he can't kill his opponents. That never changed.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#64987: Sep 26th 2017 at 7:23:42 PM

Adding to this, Hit really doesn't seem as strong as he was in Universe 6 - he was holding back his killing techniques and forced Goku to go Blue KK 10, but after the Black arc he fought Goku "at his best" and Blue Goku was able to draw him with without Kaio-ken.

Now, Goku doesn't even need to stay in Blue to fight Dyspo (admittedly, Hit beat Dyspo pretty quickly once he had him figured out).

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#64988: Sep 26th 2017 at 7:24:11 PM

[up][up] Also the fact that even though Goku got knocked back into base, he was still able to get right back up like nothing happened and continue fighting. Really, it did as much as Vegeta's little rage boost against Beerus.

edited 26th Sep '17 7:26:39 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#64989: Sep 26th 2017 at 7:25:53 PM

[up][up]Well we can attribute that to Goku having increased in strength since their last fight.

edited 26th Sep '17 7:26:14 PM by Moth13

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#64990: Sep 26th 2017 at 7:27:05 PM

I think Goku got stronger in-between the U6 tournament and after the Future Trunks arc. Now, there are some pretty silly theories that he must've gotten ten times stronger in order to beat Hit in Blue when he took it up to x10 before, but I do think he got a little stronger. I also don't think taking it up to times ten was necessary to beat Hit, I think Goku was just testing this new form's limits, since it was his first time doing it.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#64991: Sep 26th 2017 at 7:36:08 PM

[up][up] Even if we do, that means Kale's feats against Goku shouldn't be compared to Hit's against a possibly much weaker Goku.

[up] he was still struggling against Hit with KK 10, and Hit was holding back so I doubt 10 was overkill.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#64992: Sep 26th 2017 at 7:44:31 PM

Hit wasn't holding back any power, just his killing techniques. It's not like using his murder-moves made him stronger. He just wasn't allowed to shoot his phasing Ki blasts into people's hearts. He was still going all-out, power-wise. Also, Goku only used Kaio-Kenx10 very briefly to land a combo on Hit and move in Hit's Timeskip. For the rest of their fight after that moment, Hit and Goku are fighting while Goku's only using the base Kaio-Ken.

Actually, I wonder if the fact that we've seen Hit use his phasing Ki blasts and his pocket dimension in the Tournament of Power is an indicator that he's been training to use those moves in ways to not kill people, just in case another tournament with Goku might happen.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#64993: Sep 26th 2017 at 8:03:09 PM

The moves still made him more dangerous, that was very explicitly spelled out in his return episode. He's effectively in a different tier for having used them.

Goku dropping down to base Kaio-ken is just an assumption as far as I'm aware. He powered up to tenfold, and there was no indication that he dropped it back.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#64994: Sep 26th 2017 at 8:04:25 PM

So I wonder why Dende, the subordinate Kais, and other lesser gods weren't invited to the Tournament?

XMenMutant22 The Feline Follies of Felix the Cat Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#64995: Sep 26th 2017 at 8:10:45 PM

[up] Their (possible) universal equivalents weren't invited, so they're probably not considered important spectators. Just 10 warriors, an angel, a God of Destruction, a Kai and their attendant.


I don't think we've touched upon an important element here:

With only one Freeza's Race member on the field, and Jiren finally deciding to pick a fight with Goku....

*Gasp!* Of course!

Frost's secondary motive: slowing down the tournament! It makes sense: picking fights and never finishing them, hiding out with his smoke bombs, and most importantly, his excitement in hanging around Freeza! He's was trying to capitalize on everyone's patience, for profit, by using his race's inherent time manipulation.

Thankfully, the Zen-Ohs and Freeza caught wind of this. They're considered evil? Bah, they did nothing wrong.


[down] Maybe in a breather arc, he could be referenced? (Assuming they haven't straight-up forgotten about him).

edited 26th Sep '17 8:25:29 PM by XMenMutant22

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#64996: Sep 26th 2017 at 8:15:32 PM

Relatedly, I wonder if we'll ever see the Grand Kai appear in Super? He was technically anime-only, but he was mentioned in the manga and designed by Toriyama himself.

Justin_Brett Since: Jun, 2010
#64997: Sep 26th 2017 at 9:24:20 PM

Damom looks like a fun guy. Girl?

RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#64998: Sep 26th 2017 at 9:50:17 PM

@ Hamburger Time: That might explain why Universe 7 has had five Supreme Kais but the others don't seem to-the Grand Supreme Kai was the only ones important. Which Shin is by default, though Old Kai makes things complicated

Hmm...do Gods of Destruction need all the Supreme Kais dead to kill them, or just the Grand Supreme Kai. If I wanted to take out Beerus, would I have to target both Shin and Old Kai or is Shin just fine?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#64999: Sep 26th 2017 at 10:20:53 PM

Damon's a guy. The other bug, Gamisaras, is his twin sister... maybe. There's been a lot of misinformation about the invisibugs, so don't quote me on that.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#65000: Sep 26th 2017 at 10:38:38 PM

Not sure if spoilers, but have y'all seen this calendar yet?

It might be a stretch, but I think they might be characters important to the Tournament of Power's climax.


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