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Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#64776: Sep 24th 2017 at 11:50:41 AM

One does not simply stop talking about justice.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#64777: Sep 24th 2017 at 12:10:12 PM

Now, I would call this an actual strawman. I never said anything about politeness being horrible or terrible inconvenient, I said you conflate just being clear and perhaps blunt with your opinions as being impolite.

I do think that things can get out of hand here, mostly with interactions with a couple of people, but seem more interesting in stifling actual discussion than addressing that. It comes off more like you valuing a fake civility over actually discussing what the thread is supposed to be discussing.

It's not a strawman, it's a extrapolation from the many times you've said things "People don't talk like that, why should we have to change what we say?" "We shouldn't have to dance around things" or in that exact same post "You are stifling discussion" when ever I point out that someone is taking their bluntness a bit too far. That's why I get the impression you think politeness is too much effort to be worth it. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it comes off.

I have no problem with people discussing power levels or any other topic about dragonball, I'm not trying to shut down arguments or do any sort of Ad Hominem thing, I just want to hang out in a cool thread that isn't full of nastiness under the veneer of "It's the internet, that's just how it is".

But yeah, thinking it over, you're right. These conversations I've been having never turn out productive or change things, and that mod button in there for a reason. In the future I'll trying to keep thread clogging discussions about this to a minimum and just use the mod button when I feel things go too far.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#64778: Sep 24th 2017 at 12:17:47 PM

[up]I think the issue is that we disagree on what "too far" is. Because it honestly seems like you think that people saying "no, this is wrong, and here's why" is rude, instead of as, well, having an opinion and thoroughly explaining it. You try and dress it up as politeness but I've seen no reason to change my descriptor of your general attitude whenever this comes up.

But if you're just going to start reporting things, I guess we'll see what the mods think.

edited 24th Sep '17 12:18:41 PM by LSBK

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#64779: Sep 24th 2017 at 1:48:49 PM

A ny way

I like that Gohan caught on to Freeza's thing early, but I don't see why Freeza did it in the first place since it's completely unnessecary for him to need to trick Jimeze or Frost.

I get that, with Frost's smoke bombing, the easy rationalization is "he's being a dick" but that's pretty lazy and it doesn't explain why Gohan would go along with it. The end result of this plan is that Freeza ringed out two people he could have done without the plan, and he wasted Gohan's stamina to do so (so much for it being important to conserve that!). So his plan is nothing but a hindrance to the team, yay?

The character's actions don't really make sense. It's like they're just taking common plot twists and tropes and tossing them in there without fully thinking them through - the cowardly fighter, the fake out betrayal to eliminate someone else, etc. - at least Frost wanted to turn the Mafuba on Vegeta and using the hard-to-ring-out Magetta as bait both made sense.

Yeah, Gohan isn't really being used well here, even if it's a huge improvement over previous arcs. The issue is that the writers really can't seem to have tension without having the characters act sloppy or hold back, like Gohan only using his Ultimate state for a fake fight anyway. It shouldn't drain his stamina, so why is he letting the robit and Jimeze overpower him? Freeza even mentioned that he lost significant stamina by holding back against Jimeze, so why on Earth did he do it?

On Roshi's episodes being the best of this tournament: I still disagree (the fanservice means nothing to me, and without that they are just bad - only Goku and Vegeta's interactions with him are good, and they aren't worth the rest of it) but even if I did, it doesn't speak much for the quality of the rest of the tournament. There haven't been too many stand out episodes here.

DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#64780: Sep 24th 2017 at 2:00:51 PM

I don't know, Freeza's scheme took out Frost with a minimum of effort, and I still don't think Freeza's fully on the side of the rest of the team, so I don't know how much he cares about conserving Gohan's stamina.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#64781: Sep 24th 2017 at 2:02:46 PM

Anyone remember when this saga was first announced and we had those wicked manga panels set to Limit Break X Survivor and we were all like "Holy shit, this is going to be awesome"?

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#64782: Sep 24th 2017 at 2:03:05 PM

I don't think it was about being tactical, it was about Frieza dicking around, while doing something he was going to do anyway. It was for his own amusement more than anything.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#64783: Sep 24th 2017 at 2:04:23 PM

[up][up] Heh yeah. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#64784: Sep 24th 2017 at 2:06:01 PM

It seems to be getting a better reception than most of the rest of the show, at least here.

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#64785: Sep 24th 2017 at 2:08:57 PM

Quick question: how strong is Ribrianne supposed to be? I've been having a hard time guaging her as a threat. She seems to have picked up a sense of weight for others that just falls flat for me, because it doesn't seem like she's a genuine challenge for the U7 team, despite any hyping that's been going on

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#64786: Sep 24th 2017 at 2:17:39 PM

Gohan not using Ultimate form all the time makes no sense, because it's not even supposed to put any additional burden on the body.

[up]She's an annoyance, but nothing more. Like, the only reason her fight with Goku is lasting so long, is because Goku is holding back like crazy, just like through this whole arc.

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#64787: Sep 24th 2017 at 2:19:02 PM

That's what I thought. OK. I thought I was missing something for a minute there.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#64788: Sep 24th 2017 at 2:27:50 PM

Goku really is an idiot.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#64789: Sep 24th 2017 at 2:44:14 PM

She fought 17 pretty evenly, and the audience reactions to her fighting Goku leads me to believe that she actually is supposed to be one of the heaviest hitters in the tournament.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#64790: Sep 24th 2017 at 2:50:59 PM

Yeah, but when Goku is barely trying (and we know he's barely trying, because they keep making a big deal about conserving energy and stamina) what does that actually mean?

I don't put much stock in the audience reaction. So far it just seems more like it's about trying to get people hyped for whatever "cool" thing is currently going on, and not really a definitive evaluation on the fighters.

edited 24th Sep '17 2:51:18 PM by LSBK

Justin_Brett Since: Jun, 2010
#64791: Sep 24th 2017 at 2:55:44 PM

As strong as Super Saiyan Vegeta and 17 going all out (neither of whom really play this holding back game so much), which would put her up there. So unless base Goku is as strong as both of them, I'd assume it's because of his new form slowly coming out? He was Super Saiyan for Maji, and I dunno if she's meant to be weaker than him.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#64792: Sep 24th 2017 at 2:56:57 PM

So what universe do we all think is going to be the next one out? I'm guessing 3. They aren't in last place in terms of number of fighters remaining, but they don't seem to have any aces up their sleeve at the moment (4 still has the Invisibugs at least) and they're apparently dependent on Paparoni to control the robots which is a pretty glaring weakness.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#64793: Sep 24th 2017 at 3:15:18 PM

Vegeta didn't even had a serious fight with her, he quickly decided to leave because even punching her disgusted him.

[up]Yeah, 3 seems like the least important universe left.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#64794: Sep 24th 2017 at 3:50:15 PM

[up][up][up] 17 held back against Goku, and again against Kakunsa.

He gave an excuse for the later but he is absolutely all about the holding back game, everyone is for some reason.

I don't know, Freeza's scheme took out Frost with a minimum of effort, and I still don't think Freeza's fully on the side of the rest of the team, so I don't know how much he cares about conserving Gohan's stamina.

But he even used his golden form and 100%, the latter of which he said uses up a lot of energy. I understand he has improved his golden form, but fighting inside it must still take energy like the other transformations.

Given how easily he took out Frost and Jimeze, it seems like the plan took more effort, even ignoring the cost to Gohan.

But even if it's just being a dick and not caring about Gohan, why is everyone cool with that? At the end of the episode, everyone was like "Freeza didn't betray us after all!" But if all we did was screw with Gohan, he kinda did and even says he would have killed Gohan if he didn't go along with it to absolutely no gain at all.

There should have been some upside to this for the characters to be as tolerant of it as they were shown being.

edited 24th Sep '17 3:56:21 PM by Saiga

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#64795: Sep 24th 2017 at 3:55:48 PM

Nobody ever tries their hardest anymore.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#64796: Sep 24th 2017 at 3:58:38 PM

Even in a situation where they, there families & the innocent people they have worked so hard to protect for decades are under the threat of literal oblivion.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#64797: Sep 24th 2017 at 4:06:33 PM

Actually, I think one of the Xenoverses implied that Frieza, after mastering his Final Form and gaining his Golden Form, was still capable of using his 100% Power state in order to give himself a minor power boost. That would, hilariously, make it similar to Younger Toguro's "120% Power" state from Yu Yu Hakusho.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#64798: Sep 24th 2017 at 4:08:09 PM

So what's the rationale for thinking that Goku will be eliminated after his big transformation? That sounds vaguely interesting.

Gehayadren Bad Movie Binge Collector from A Garbage Fire Since: Jun, 2016 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#64799: Sep 24th 2017 at 4:08:26 PM

I always find it hilarious that Super keeps finding new ways to be a steaming pile of crap.

Ha ha ha. What a story, Mark.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#64800: Sep 24th 2017 at 4:19:11 PM

[up][up] I guess the fact that Jiren is clearly still in after Goku gets his new form makes people think Goku will get eliminated.

Like, we already know Goku gets beat down once before getting the new form. If he gets beaten down again, then what's next? I can see people thinking it'd just be repetitive to show up again.

But maybe it is similar to Doffy vs Luffy, and the post special episodes will be defending Goku until he can join the fray again.


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