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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#64726: Sep 23rd 2017 at 11:38:33 PM

I still believe SBG is a thing personally, or at least the state of God-like Saiyan.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#64727: Sep 23rd 2017 at 11:47:12 PM

No, it's a very obvious strawman. Don't just throw away the literal years of effort I've spent figuring out Dragon Ball's goddamn power levels. I'm not just looking for whatever conclusion fits what I want best, you don't know how many times I've had to completely rewrite everything in response to a new bit of information coming out while still working my damndest to keep it consistent with all previous information. I have pages upon pages of lists of Power Levels written down for every arc of the series.

I didn't believe in whatever the fuck the name for this transformation that Goku and Vegeta are using is supposed to be at first. But after arc after arc and episode after episode came out, it became the only logical and mathematically consistent answer for this question that exists. Again, there is no actual hard evidence disproving the forms existence (and trust me, I'VE LOOKED), and this most recent episode provides the most solid evidence for it since Goku Black.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#64728: Sep 23rd 2017 at 11:47:32 PM

Vegeta went SSB against Magetta in the most recent episode.

Well that was a "time to instantly end this fight because I'm pissed" moment, when Vegeta is Super Saiyan Yellow they fight on mostly equal terms.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#64729: Sep 23rd 2017 at 11:54:01 PM

I'm doing Xenoverse 1's story, and... is this mission against Beerus and Whis supposed to make me want to snap my controller in two? I've never seen such bullshit. They keep double-teaming me and breaking my stamina, leaving me just helplessly comboed to death.

edited 23rd Sep '17 11:54:27 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#64730: Sep 24th 2017 at 12:06:29 AM

[up][up][up] Just stepping in to say that's not what that term means. "A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent."

Also, if you want us to actually believe you, just upload these supposed pages upon pages of data you've collected and share it with us.

edited 24th Sep '17 12:08:08 AM by Zelenal

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#64731: Sep 24th 2017 at 12:42:55 AM

you don't know how many times I've had to completely rewrite everything in response to a new bit of information coming out

Don't you think there's a problem with the source material if you're constantly having to redefine all of your collected data whenever the latest contradiction nullifies all of it?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#64732: Sep 24th 2017 at 12:52:34 AM

[up]I've been doing this long before Battle of Gods was even announced. If that was a problem for me, I'd have given up with Dragon Ball.

[up][up]Alright, it's not a strawman. It's still brushing off my hard work though.

As much as I'd like to upload the pages, I can't do that. Those pages are actually 16 pages of Power Level lists that exist as a skeletal blueprint for my future planned Dragon Ball movies. They aren't exactly accurate to the anime and manga and I'm changing a couple things that could qualify as spoilers, should they ever get made.

Don't get the wrong idea, the Power Levels of my movies are rooted deeply in my estimations of the Power Levels of the series proper, and most conversions to change them back would simply require reversing some of my small changes, like the size of Super Saiyan 2's multiplier.

I did post my personal ideas on the Power Levels of Dragon Ball Super a while back, though, and I've been going back and forth with someone over PM about more estimations I have. Here's the abridged version, just with the multipliers:

SS1: 50x base

Golden: 60x Final Form

SS2: 2x SS1 (100x base)

Controlled Super Saiyan Berserk: 100x base

SS3: 4x SS2 (400x base)

Super Saiyan Berserk: 500x base

Saiyan Beyond God (still going with this name because I'm used to using it): 2,000x base

Super Saiyan Rage: 1,000x SS1 (50,000x base)

Super Saiyan God: 60,000x base

Super Saiyan Blue/Super Saiyan Rose: 50x SBG/2,000x SS1 (100,000x base)

Some of these (the older forms) are directly from official sources while the others are just rough estimations. If there's any new evidence contradicting these, I'll change them again, but so far there hasn't been.

edited 24th Sep '17 12:54:08 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#64733: Sep 24th 2017 at 12:59:26 AM

Oh Jesus Christ the movies again...

My various fanfics.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#64734: Sep 24th 2017 at 1:04:45 AM

I mean, I don't exactly hate the concept of making your own movie plots for this series.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#64735: Sep 24th 2017 at 1:10:46 AM

See, it doesn't matter how much work you've done. You've just admitted to modifying your own estimations to fit your fan project. They can't be considered accurate after that.

edit: Yeah, we need more than that to believe you. Those figures (aside from the official ones) are meaningless on their own. As is your referencing your literature study, or being a scientist.

edited 24th Sep '17 1:11:41 AM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#64736: Sep 24th 2017 at 1:25:53 AM

Believe me about what? That I've wasted years of my life working my ass off for a pipe dream that might never come to fruition? What's so unbelievable about that? Or were you talking about Saiyan Beyond God, which I've already explained my evidence for in excruciating detail?

Now, I could copy over all 16 pages of Power Levels to a new document and spend hours painstakingly editing all of them to reflect my estimations of Dragon Ball's canon Power Levels, but I'm not going to do that. Both because that is an absurd and unreasonable amount of work to do just to prove a point in an informal argument, and because it will do jack and shit to prove said point, since you would just fall back on the old standby of "well, you know, that's just like, your opinion, man".

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#64737: Sep 24th 2017 at 1:25:57 AM

Huh I just now thought of this but Krillen is older than 18 right?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#64738: Sep 24th 2017 at 1:31:21 AM

[up][up] Oh no I totally believe it will never come to fruition.

But I meant believing you about those random figures you tossed out being credible to the main series.

If you're not willing to back up your points, you don't have much of an argument. You shouldn't even need to be going through the work you've just mentioned to add some more depth and support to your points.

[up] We have no idea how old 18 is. I mean, she doesn't age/ages slowly depending on the source, so physically Kuririn will obviously eclipse her, but chronologically is a mystery.

edited 24th Sep '17 1:33:42 AM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#64739: Sep 24th 2017 at 1:31:40 AM

[up][up]I don't think we know how old 17 and 18 actually are. We know Gero kidnapped them when they were teenage delinquents, but we don't know how long ago that was or how old they were as teenagers.

edited 24th Sep '17 1:32:05 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#64740: Sep 24th 2017 at 2:03:01 AM

Is it weird that I feel a little bit bad about Frost for Frieza betraying him? The way they interact, it comes as Frost genuinely likes Frieza. Well as much as one sociopath can care for another, but the way he says things like "sempai" it comes off as a dark mirror of Cabba and Vegeta's relationship

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#64741: Sep 24th 2017 at 2:06:01 AM

Wouldn't put too much stock into it. He also refers to Vegeta as "Vegeta-san" and seems to have Freeza's false politeness.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#64742: Sep 24th 2017 at 2:06:25 AM

Yeah, pretty much. Frost definitely seemed to look up to Freeza in some way, and though he did threaten to betray him, he was also acknowledged to be weaker and his constantly calling him sempai did show that there was an established hierarchy between the two.

RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#64743: Sep 24th 2017 at 2:41:17 AM

Maybe it's just me. I imagine that when Chris and his brother ever are in the dub, they would give some minor Dub Text.

Says something about Frieza that his heightened Faux Affably Evil attitude is the closest he has ever come to connecting with another person

edited 24th Sep '17 2:42:24 AM by RJ-19-CLOVIS-93

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#64744: Sep 24th 2017 at 4:18:40 AM

Here is hoping Chris is back and healthy by when Freeza returns.

And that's why I'd loved to see Cell on the team, he and Freeza could have clicked quite well in a Faux Affably Evil sort of way.

Oh well, Roshi pulled his weight, unless you like power levrl pedancy more than an enjoyable show. And, in any case, the manga will go deeper into details.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#64745: Sep 24th 2017 at 5:10:31 AM

Man, that was a crazy fucking episode, I guess Frost doesn't exist anymore...

Also, here's gameplay of SSGSSKKx20 Goku in Heroes, which has a purple lightning aura:

edited 24th Sep '17 5:10:46 AM by Rinsankajugin

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#64746: Sep 24th 2017 at 5:26:34 AM

Maybe to some people having consistency makes things more enjoyable by being able to attach more meaning to the important moments.

Not everyone finds molestation jokes, blatant fanservice and defying the original themes to be enjoyable, anyhow. Different strokes.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#64747: Sep 24th 2017 at 5:40:45 AM

I see the issues with Roshi's inclusion. Still doesn't change that his episodes are among the best in the arc so far.

Like Saiga said, different strokes.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#64748: Sep 24th 2017 at 5:44:43 AM

I can see why people like Roshi's best moments, and equally understand where his low moments are.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#64749: Sep 24th 2017 at 7:11:30 AM
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#64750: Sep 24th 2017 at 8:30:55 AM

Oh no I totally believe it will never come to fruition.

Come on dude, that is needlessly snide.


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