No, you weren't. Because my argument started out with "we can't use Super as an example for power levels".
I have never argued that the lack of SBG makes sense in Super, or more sense than it being present. I only argued that I don't think it's likely that the writers consider such a thing.
edited 9th Sep '17 9:05:35 PM by Saiga
I think we can, and calculating it my way just happens to perfectly explain and contextualize all of where everyone stands compared to each other. Obviously the writers considered it, Heroes doesn't exist in a vacuum.
By the way, if Goku is maybe two or three times as strong as he was during the Buu Saga in base and Krillin is capable of putting up a fight against him, than the humans are obvious picks over the kids, because they're only slightly weaker with a wealth more experience, combat sense, and skill. Goten and Trunks are weak comparatively anyways, probably never even got past Android 16 individually and they haven't been seriously training since their months in the ROSAT.
edited 9th Sep '17 9:13:06 PM by PushoverMediaCritic
It doesn't perfectly explain anything. It's a bunch of fanon that doesn't even come close to covering the inconsistencies.
Anyway, that very example doesn't make sense at all. If Goku is three times stronger than he was in the Boo arc (no evidence of this whatsoever - future Trunks arc makes his Super Saiyan 2/3 look comparable to his Boo arc self) then Kuririn is NOWHERE near Goten and Trunks in strength because they still have Super Saiyan.
The skills/experience he has isn't worth shit (for starters - honestly, the humans don't show a great deal of skill or specific training on screen, most of the situations they find themselves in are pretty same-y). As I pointed out before, Gohan was a better pick over Goku when there was a faaaaaaaaar smaller gap between them.
Gotenks was a better pick over Goku when they didn't expect him to hit Super Saiyan 3. Goten and Trunks were a better pick over Piccolo when they didn't know fusion was an option.
The skills/experience is a huge Informed Attribute.
I just realized that the Buu Saga was about Goku trying to pass down the torch to the younger generation and learning that that was a bad idea and the younger generation wasn't ready to handle it. Now I fully understand why Goten and Trunks aren't being utilized: it's because they learned that these kids are irresponsible and can't be trusted to handle serious situations when they screwed up in the Buu Saga.
It's more of a Godly Ki transformation than it is another 'base' form.
edited 9th Sep '17 9:37:18 PM by PushoverMediaCritic
That's an unintentional lesson that doesn't take into account that Goku and Vegeta screwed things up just as much, if not more so, and in the end it was purely circumstance that lead to the conclusion we got.
Hell, not relying on Gotenks/Gohan actually made things harder in the end with the Spirit Bomb plan that nearly failed.
That's really reaching. You can make the argument that Goku should not have tried to palm everything off, but working together with them makes way more sense than trying to exclude them from everything. Especially when Super has gone on to establish that Goku and Vegeta will continue to make things worse as they always have.
Indeed. A lot of people screwed up in the Buu saga (and many of them were related, proving that fucking up is a family trait.).
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Krillin and Tenshihan are completely impossible to justify unless you change how Power Levels work, or ignore them (and Super has been doing the latter to poor reception).
I have to admit, in the long run, using Goten and Trunks would have been better unless (as I mentioned earlier) they not put Future Trunks on a Bus like they did.
Popularity is a bitch though, but I'm really surprised that Toriyama did it like this. I never pegged him for one who does anything for Popularity (which is why it's likely Toei gave him a nudge in that direction).
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