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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#63651: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:20:04 PM

Uh I still really like Tien here.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#63652: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:20:32 PM

I have nothing against Tien himself, but there's nothing really interesting about him either. Anything people like about him comes from his debut in Dragon Ball as Goku's rival, and guess what, Goku's had better rivals since then.

So after that, there's nothing. People will swear up and down that his Hold the Line moment against Cell was some crowning achievement and it's literally the only thing his fans will cling to. They keep constantly going on and on on how he "deserves" to be the strongest human, for no other reason than "because he trains a lot" like that's worth a damn thing.

They are the embodiment of the most cancerous parts of the DB fanbase and I will take great amounts of joy in watching them suffer for all eternity. And if Tien has to suffer for that, then so be it.

edited 5th Sep '17 5:20:54 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#63653: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:21:58 PM

They keep constantly going on and on on how he "deserves" to be the strongest human, for no other reason than "because he trains a lot" like that's worth a damn thing.

Sounds like a pretty good reason to me.

And the Cell thing was pretty impressive.

edited 5th Sep '17 5:22:37 PM by Moth13

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#63654: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:23:08 PM

He's way more deserving of that title than Krillen especially since the guy straight up gave up martial arts.

[up] Indeed it was.

edited 5th Sep '17 5:24:05 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#63655: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:25:02 PM

He's hardly the only character that trains a lot though. That other characters train as often, and better, and have more talent than him, isn't something against Tien. It's just how the series went.

I'm not going to be a strong about as some others, but I do have to admit I get a bit of satisfaction out of seeing people be upset about things like this, when they were clinging to something that was never really like they thought it was to begin with.

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#63656: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:25:16 PM

Agreed.

@LSBK

He's way more deserving of that title than Krillen especially since the guy straight up gave up martial arts.

edited 5th Sep '17 5:27:10 PM by GAP

"Mai waifu."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#63657: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:26:34 PM

Yeah, long long ago I realized I had nothing against the human characters, just their fans. Ten's are by far the worst about this, but Kuririn's fans have also been frustrating because of the rivalry between the Ten and Kuririn fanbases.

I don't want to see bad things happen to Ten, I just want him retired like he was in the manga. That's not to spite his fans, I think it's just best for him.

But if his fans are going to get salty I may as well enjoy it. And the fucking will.

[up][up] Agreed. They're clinging to an ideal he can't live up to.

edited 5th Sep '17 5:27:37 PM by Saiga

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#63658: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:26:40 PM

And as far as that moment goes, no matter how impressive you think it is, if it's literally the only thing you can point to (and it might not be, but it usually is), that should probably tell you something right there.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#63659: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:26:46 PM

I still like Tenshinhan. The 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai finale between him and Goku is still my favorite fight of the franchise. I'm just not super crazy about him like some people are.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#63660: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:27:07 PM

Whether he or Krillin "deserve" anything is irreverent, because they don't. All it is is fans being buttmad because the series isn't bending backwards to cater to their whims. They are not people worth caring about.

[up][up] And that's another point, it's quite literally the only thing people can claim and that's exactly why people cling so hardly to it regardless of how much he actually accomplished for it.

Fucking Krillin did more in that arc since what he did actually had consequences, even if they were negative.

edited 5th Sep '17 5:29:02 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#63661: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:28:50 PM

I'm not some overzealous fan of his.

I just think the man deserves some cred & respect. I mean Krillen did dogshit against Cell.

I agree he needs to be retired though, the man has long since fallen out of relevance like Yamcha so just let em be.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Gehayadren Bad Movie Binge Collector from A Garbage Fire Since: Jun, 2016 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#63662: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:29:16 PM

You know, this scene is why I cannot wait to find the entirety of Kai with Faulconer's soundtrack.

Ha ha ha. What a story, Mark.
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#63663: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:29:23 PM

Whether he or Krillin "deserve" anything is irreverent, because they don't.

Guess what, that's an inherently subjective thing. I'd really appreciate if people would stop spouting this line off like it means anything.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#63664: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:32:16 PM

What's subjective about? It's perfectly fine to have favor characters or want them to do things, but no character really deserves anything. They exist to serve the story and what the author wants to do.

Goku doesn't really "deserve" to be the main character, but he is because that's how Toriyama wants it be. If and when Toriyama or whoever changes their mind about that, it doesn't somehow equate to Goku being shafted or whatever.

Going "subjective" should not be used as a blanket to shutdown people expressing their opinions, and you have a habit of doing just that.

edited 5th Sep '17 5:33:15 PM by LSBK

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#63665: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:33:31 PM

Tien was...well, he was a new rival for Goku. He was good at it. He fought evenly with a Goku who had destroyed the Red Ribbon army three years earlier, and before Piccolo, Buu or Gotenks came along, he had some of the craziest techniques of any protagonist in his arsenal.

He fell victim to The Worf Effect, but you can't hold that against him, as every character falls victim to that after they've served their purpose of challenging (or trying to challenge) Goku.

We've debated the Cell thing: some people try to downplay it (I'm not sure if it's purely out of spite towards his fans) because it ended up meaning nothing, but that's not his fault. By all rights, he shouldn't have been able to do anything at that point (since at that moment, Cell was more powerful than everyone but Vegeta and Trunks) but he pulled it off anyway and that deserves credit. The fact that it meant nothing in the end is not so much his fault (which it isn't) as it is both Vegeta, Krillin, and the plot's fault.

I'll reiterate: hate his fans, hate that they try to make him into something he's not, but don't shit on him for something he can't control.

edited 5th Sep '17 5:33:54 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#63666: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:35:11 PM

I already said my piece. lol

But damn, if people are this salty then I can only imagine what will happen if Vegeta is the next one to be eliminated. tongue

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#63667: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:35:22 PM

Tien does need to just focus on his dojo and for Toriyama to leave him alone. It is clear that Tien is never going to be relevant just like Piccolo, Yamcha, Krilin, Chiaotzu, Roshi, etc.

"Mai waifu."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#63668: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:35:32 PM

You know, I would be so down for a filler mini-arc after this one about a multiversal baseball league, with Yamcha still helming U7. Imagine the Pride Troopers in perfectly matching baseball uniforms.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#63669: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:37:05 PM

Yamcha got a spotlight episode that played up to the mans strengths and even though he was no stronger than everyone else he still saved the day.

It wouldn't be that hard to give Tien a spotlight episode that plays to his strength & level.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#63670: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:37:41 PM

Yeah, trying to argue that fictional characters "deserve" things is silly to me.

They're just figments of a writer's imagination, who exist for the purpose of a narrative. They can't "deserve" things out-of-universe.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#63671: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:37:44 PM

[up] I guess.

But damn, if people are this salty then I can only imagine what will happen if Vegeta is the next one to be eliminated.

It is going to happen, it is not a matter of how but of when.

edited 5th Sep '17 5:38:21 PM by GAP

"Mai waifu."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#63672: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:37:49 PM

I'd better sympathize with the complaints if these were things that happened abruptly or without reason, but that's not really the case.

I think a much better argument could be made that Gohan was "shafted" although I probably still wouldn't use that term. Well, maybe Goten and Trunks too. But Tenshinhan, Krillin, Yamcha, etc? The gap between them and the threats kept growing wider, as a natural consequence of the series. And, sure, if Toriyama wanted to he could have found ways to push them up, but it's not like he's obliged to do that.

edited 5th Sep '17 5:41:22 PM by LSBK

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#63673: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:38:26 PM

@Moth 13: LSBK already spelled it out, but yea. What's subjective about my statement? It's not like I said Tien is a terrible character who should be killed off, but that he deserves anything. Which he doesn't.

This is a story of fiction, and every character in it is simply a means to an end, a tool. Tien served his purpose a long time ago and has no actual reason to even be around. That's not saying he shouldn't appear, but that he doesn't need to nor does he have to.

And that's my entire point, everyone seems to be under the impression that some characters have to be this or that for them to care about them, when the fact of the matter is, they are simply at the whims of the writers and what they want to do with them.

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings if you liked Tien, but it is what it is.

edited 5th Sep '17 5:39:12 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#63674: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:39:03 PM

I don't want to see bad things happen to Ten, I just want him retired like he was in the manga. That's not to spite his fans, I think it's just best for him.

Fair enough. This probably is for the best. I imagine its tough because characters in dragon ball can drop out of relevance really quickly and become part of team cannon fodder distressingly quickly.

But if his fans are going to get salty I may as well enjoy it. And the fucking will.

Also fair enough.cool

edited 5th Sep '17 5:39:58 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#63675: Sep 5th 2017 at 5:40:59 PM

Eh people get emotional about characters they like. Even if they are fictional concepts who gives a fuck.

If I like this character enough then I will say if they deserve shit or not. Them being not real & at the whims of the writer is fucking irrelevant.

edited 5th Sep '17 5:41:29 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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