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Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#6326: May 4th 2014 at 10:48:36 AM

Dragon Ball Minus? what is that, let me check...

...

Oh my God! Is that Goku's mom?! She has name and face now! Holy cow! surprised

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
Hey there! Having fun?
#6327: May 4th 2014 at 11:39:35 AM

I didn't really like DB–. Did Toriyama forget that he enjoyed the Bardock special?

And Goku being BORN good in a race of bloodthirsty killers is just bullshit.

edited 4th May '14 11:43:59 AM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#6328: May 4th 2014 at 12:36:27 PM

[up][up] You're a little late to the party... wink

[up] There's no concrete conclusion as to how Goku grew up because of the contradictions that Dragon Ball Minus creates. My guess is that he was just as bloodthirsty, barbaric and combat loving as any Saiyan but maybe Saiyan children can be properly molded into better people as they grow up if they in a more comforting environment, i.e being raised by greatly caring, eternally loving and and unconditionally kind and warm-hearted Grandpa Gohan in total isolation from the rest of the toxic world.

Ironically, Dragon Ball Minus actually opens up more room for character development as far as Goku is concerned. Because the dynamic between Kid Goku and Grandpa Gohan seem as lot more intriguing now. Like how Goku eventually calmed down and how Goku and Grandpa Gohan became as close as family. This also would add more fuel to the debate of "Nature vs Nurture".

edited 4th May '14 12:54:25 PM by FireShadow

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#6329: May 4th 2014 at 12:53:10 PM

I haven't read Dragon Ball Minus. Did they change the explanation for Goku's behavior? Because I rather liked the one the Saiyan Saga gave, that he's not a bloodthirsty monster like the rest of his species because he fell down a cliff and smashed his head on a rock as an infant.

He's one of the rare few Good Is Dumb anime protagonists who actually has an honest-to-god justifiable reason for why he's both incredibly stupid and prone to making mind-numbingly awful decisions, and also an incredibly capable and talented fighter. Anime loves to have their main character be a fighting savant who's stupider than a bag of rocks but wins every battle anyway, and it's hard to find examples of this being done well.

edited 4th May '14 12:57:17 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#6330: May 4th 2014 at 1:01:27 PM

[up] There was no explanation given as to why eventually became the happy-go-lucky, incorruptibly pure, martial arts master that he is. And that is precisely why we need a Dragon Ball Reboot. Because Dragon Ball Minus, along with Jaco The Galactic Patrolman, both of which are official prequels to the Dragon Ball manga, has essentially retconned that first 14 years of Goku life. We need a proper explanation as to why Goku has the sort of personality he has. Because according to Toriyama, it wasn't due to that fact that he hit his head hard as a baby and essentially suffered brain damage. So why is Goku the way that he is? That is the million Zeni question...

edited 4th May '14 1:04:21 PM by FireShadow

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#6332: May 4th 2014 at 1:07:59 PM

To be fair, hasn't it be said that Toriyama is just really forgetful.

Though I find it hard to believe he'd forget such an important aspect of his own series, but as long as Launch keeps doing her elephant impression, we can never be totally sure.

edited 4th May '14 1:08:31 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#6333: May 4th 2014 at 1:10:50 PM

They explained that just fine. The reason he became kind-hearted is because he suffered intensive brain damage after falling down a ravine and smashing his head on a rock. The reason he became a martial arts master is because he began studying martial arts under Master Roshi, something that never could have happened if he were still a ferociously destructive murderbeast.

  • Goku is a murderous Saiyan warrior.
  • Goku smashes his head on a rock, suffering brain damage.
  • Goku is a kind-hearted child with ferocious Saiyan power.
  • Goku studies martial arts from various masters over the course of his life.
  • Goku is a kind-hearted expert martial artist with ferocious Saiyan power.

The causality is all there. What is Dragon Ball Minus saying happened?

edited 4th May '14 1:11:45 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#6334: May 4th 2014 at 1:14:14 PM

[up][up] What can you say... shit happens. The Dragon Ball Universe was already full of contradictions before Toriyama's recent exposition dumps.

[up] Well according to Dragon Ball Minus, he didn't arrive as a baby, he was three years old and wearing his Saiyan amour. This was never brought up originally, why? Because what Master Roshi said about Goku growing up and how his personality changed was essentially a huge lie. The only part that is technically true about Roshi's story is that he learned martial arts from Grandpa Gohan... that's it.

edited 4th May '14 3:40:13 PM by FireShadow

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#6335: May 4th 2014 at 1:15:32 PM

I'm still not clear what the contradiction here is.

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alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#6336: May 4th 2014 at 1:18:06 PM

mostly that Goku wasnt a baby,but more of a 4-5 year old kid,appearance wise.

FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#6337: May 4th 2014 at 1:22:42 PM

[up][up] The contradiction is that he hit his head as a baby. He was not a baby when he arrived on Earth, at least far as Saiyans go, he was 3-4 years old. That is a big difference...

edited 4th May '14 3:41:58 PM by FireShadow

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#6338: May 4th 2014 at 1:23:28 PM

he also wore a Saiyan armour.

Fizzo Supervillain from Brazil Since: Jun, 2010
Supervillain
#6339: May 4th 2014 at 1:24:12 PM

Actually. Dragon Ball Minus, don't really show nothing about Goku's personality before he met Son Gohan. If any retcon was made by the part of his behaviour, is that he was not sent to Earth to conquer Earth, he was sent to Earth to hide from Freeza. And that makes sense in my opinion, I never Understood why the fact that baby Sayans were sent to other worlds constantly wasn't a concern to Freeza, who just blew up the planet and assumed that there were absolutely no chance of any other Sayan besides Vegeta, Raditz and Nappa, being off the planet conquering something for him.

In Jaco we see a scene of Goku and Gohan together, and Goku was wildly and angry while eating, so I don't think this contraditcts what we knew about him. He didn't hit his head in the first five minutes of adoption, so it has to be a reason he didn't just killed Gohan in his first days on Earth.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#6340: May 4th 2014 at 1:24:30 PM

Now that I think about it, it could just be that he hit his head at a slightly older age than they wanted us to think, thereby contradicting neither the story Roshi's story, or what Minus showed us.

After all, maybe Gohan said he hit his head as a baby for some reason. Or maybe the age was never mentioned, and Roshi just assumed he was a baby when it happened.

One Strip! One Strip!
FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#6341: May 4th 2014 at 1:25:01 PM

[up][up][up] Exactly... where did the Saiyan armor go? Did he eat it?

[up] Then give us a specific age for Christ Sake! Because at the age of five Gohan was fighting Saiyans, galactic overlords and super aliens. And Goku in Dragon Ball Minus looks the same age. Would you still consider him a baby?

edited 4th May '14 1:30:28 PM by FireShadow

BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
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#6342: May 4th 2014 at 1:27:09 PM

[up]Knowing Goku... most likely.

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#6343: May 4th 2014 at 1:29:01 PM

nah,its no that big of a deal.maybe that guy sent after him took it [lol]

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#6344: May 4th 2014 at 2:01:47 PM

Oy, it looks like there's a new DBH opening that introduces Crane Master Shen, Eis Shenron and SSJ-4 Vegeta. (finally)

Also, these two posts show that SSJ-3 Majin Vegeta, Neko Majin Mix, Mike and Z as well as Final Form Kuriza will also be playable.

Also, no pictures have been shown as far as I know, but there's also gonna be a SSJ-2 Vegetto.

edited 4th May '14 2:03:17 PM by Rinsankajugin

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#6345: May 4th 2014 at 2:17:33 PM

@Why didn't Frieza assume other Saiyans survived because they went into space: The Saiyans all worked for Frieza so he'd probably have some kind of record of which ones were currently on missions and which ones weren't. He probably instituted some kind of purge to eliminate most of them and kept Vegeta, Nappa, and Raditz alive because he figured they'd be useful. Goku probably managed to slip through the cracks because he escaped right before Vegeta was destroyed so Frieza never received word of him being sent on a mission.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#6346: May 4th 2014 at 3:56:58 PM

Actually, Jaco (which ties in with Minus) shows that aside from not being a baby Goku's the same when he arrives on Earth. The first thing he does is attack Gohan, who is able to subdue him, then he brings him home where Goku eats all his food. So yes, still a violent child until the head accident.

And, Goku being a baby was only something from the original Bardock special, which Minus retconned out. There are other problems with Minus (I think it's crap) but that's not one of them.

edited 4th May '14 3:58:11 PM by Saiga

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#6347: May 4th 2014 at 4:04:49 PM

So Goku was 4 or 5 years old when he fell down a cliff, smashed his head on a rock, and suffered the brain damage that made him stop being monstrous.

Still doesn't sound like a huge contradiction to me.

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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#6348: May 4th 2014 at 4:50:03 PM

I'm just waiting for Dragon Ball Heroes to start giving everyone Super Saiyan 4 forms, starting with Broly since he already has models of him as a Super Saiyan 4 and Super Saiyan 5 selling.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
BaffleBlend Hey there! Having fun? from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: LET'S HAVE A ZILLION BABIES
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#6349: May 4th 2014 at 4:51:42 PM

The Bardock special was still more entertaining. DB– just made the reasons behind Goku's sendoff kinda'... well, boring and unengaging.

edited 4th May '14 4:53:10 PM by BaffleBlend

"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#6350: May 4th 2014 at 5:26:41 PM

Eh. They could just say the trip to earth took a while and he grew while in the womb.

The Bardock Special (the first one I'm assuming) didn't really have anything wrong with it if you ask me.

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