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Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#63401: Sep 3rd 2017 at 11:27:45 AM

Would Maji=Kayo keep his name when they bring his episodes over, or would they have to name him something more understandable?

I was thinking something like Sirius=Lee.

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#63402: Sep 3rd 2017 at 11:30:06 AM

[up] I'll be on board with that change if they have him and Goku go through a Who's on First? routine while they're fighting.

"Seriously?!" "Yes?"

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#63403: Sep 3rd 2017 at 11:34:34 AM

Oh, I completely disregarded the rematch. Filler fights are less than interesting to me.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#63404: Sep 3rd 2017 at 11:48:32 AM

It's one thing I'll give to the manga, Goku completely overpowers Hit on purely physical.

Its cute how this series keeps trying to use Weak, but Skilled and keeps failing at it.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#63405: Sep 3rd 2017 at 11:53:41 AM

Even in Dragon Ball, the whole power thing was present as most of the characters were no threat to the later villains.

"Mai waifu."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#63406: Sep 3rd 2017 at 11:58:32 AM

Yeah. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but Weak, but Skilled has never been a thing in Dragonball.

If your ki isn't in the same ballpark as the dude you're fighting, you lose.

I suppose the only time it might have been a factor was with the Goku and Piccolo vs Raditz fight (when Piccolo was charging for the Special Beam Canon, he did become strong enough to beat Raditz), and even then, it still took a Deus Ex Gohan and a Heroic Sacrifice to pull it off.

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#63407: Sep 3rd 2017 at 12:03:05 PM

Its not something that should be that hard to get.

Its not like the guy should have the strength of an ant. More like someone who is not overwhelmingly stronger than Goku, about equal in strength maybe a little weaker who is able to go toe to toe with cause he as strong but he something that gives him an edge.

Its not that hard.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Deadpoolrocks Since: Sep, 2010
#63408: Sep 3rd 2017 at 12:18:11 PM

Was there a reason all of Tiens clones had to jump after he with the laser dude. Couldn't he have just shot him off or pushed him and reverted on the arena? Or not send all 3 of his other selves into the void too

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#63409: Sep 3rd 2017 at 12:30:17 PM

Yeah. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but Weak, but Skilled has never been a thing in Dragonball. If your ki isn't in the same ballpark as the dude you're fighting, you lose.

Tell that to Ganos.

And for that matter, tell that to Ginyu. If skill means nothing and power means everything, then Ginyu-possessed Goku should have been wiping the floor with Krillin and Gohan.

edited 3rd Sep '17 12:31:49 PM by TyeDyeWildebeest

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#63410: Sep 3rd 2017 at 12:31:35 PM

Another thing is being Weak, but Skilled isn't a static thing, you always need to keep in mind the relativity of whom is the weak party in multiple different situations. Hit is Weak, but Skilled compared to Goku and Vegeta, but in all honesty towers over 95% of the established fighters in the setting.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#63411: Sep 3rd 2017 at 12:32:27 PM

[up][up][up][up]

It doesn't really seem to be Toriyama's thing. He can come up with unique powers for his villains and heroes, but Power Creep or Rule of Funny renders them ineffective against the heroes.

[up][up]

Who?

Edit: That was an exception. Note that Goku was both more powerful, and more skilled. Also, Ginyu was starting to figure out Goku's body, and might have mastered it given enough time.

edited 3rd Sep '17 12:34:22 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#63412: Sep 3rd 2017 at 12:35:58 PM

No one said skill shouldn't matter at all, but people act as saying "no, sometimes the difference in power is so great that your skill and technique doesn't matter" is something new to this series, or even particularly wrong. That's true and real life, and should be even more true here.

The Ginyu example is actually a pretty poor one, because even ignoring the Kaioken, he couldn't tap into Goku's natural power for some reason. If he could do that he really would have wiped the floor with them then. I've always actually found that strange.

edited 3rd Sep '17 12:39:24 PM by LSBK

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#63413: Sep 3rd 2017 at 12:37:58 PM

I mean a good example of week but skilled when both parties are tremendously strong is the Batman vs. Mutant Leader fight in The Dark Knight Returns.

Batman is Batman so he's stronger then everyone he faces but the Mutant Leader has him beat in brute force which is why the former lost against him the first time. So in the rematch Batman decides to fight smart, battling in mud-pit to slow him down, striking fast but forceful blows while keeping a good distance from him, cutting him above the eye so it bleed & using pressure points to make his arm fall asleep. He then broke his arm & leg for good measure.

What happened was a brutal MMA like fight where a weaker warrior conquered a much stronger foe just by fighting smart.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#63414: Sep 3rd 2017 at 12:41:34 PM

No one said, skill shouldn't matter at all

You're right; it was strawmannish of me to say that. My bad.

Who?

Ganos. You know, the Universe 4 leader who got his ass handed to him by Roshi despite being stronger and faster?

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#63415: Sep 3rd 2017 at 12:43:49 PM

Oh right. Last week.

Well, Roshi won in that case because the plot wanted him to win, since he's now suddenly powerful enough to matter due to offscreen training.

One Strip! One Strip!
TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#63416: Sep 3rd 2017 at 12:51:12 PM

[up] Well, hold on, now. I don't really think that's fair. Aside from his (very) brief exchange with Goku, that was the first time we saw Ganos fight. We can't really say that Ganos should have been out of Roshi's league, since we don't know for certain where Ganos's "league" even is.

I guess you could argue that he must be really strong since he's the team leader, but... well... Murichim says hi. Or at least he would if he still existed.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Gehayadren Bad Movie Binge Collector from A Garbage Fire Since: Jun, 2016 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#63417: Sep 3rd 2017 at 12:55:43 PM

I find it interesting that Toppo and Jiren have barely done anything in the tournament. They might as well play Go Fish while everyone else is fighting.

Ha ha ha. What a story, Mark.
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#63418: Sep 3rd 2017 at 12:56:24 PM

To be fair to Rob, that's a fair assumption to make seeing as how everything else in Super works the exact same way.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#63419: Sep 3rd 2017 at 12:59:45 PM

I find it interesting that Toppo and Jiren have barely done anything in the tournament. They might as well play Go Fish while everyone else is fighting.

Not a bad strategy really. They keep out of trouble and conserve their energy, everyone else wastes time and wears themselves out.

Then they can come in at the end and sweep the table.

Unless of course, they've simply been fighting a bunch off-screen.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#63420: Sep 3rd 2017 at 12:59:59 PM

For heroes driven to protecting there universe there doing a shit-poor job of it.

They lost more than half there number.

edited 3rd Sep '17 1:00:34 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#63421: Sep 3rd 2017 at 1:01:12 PM

[up][up][up][up] On one hand, I can't say that I wouldn't do the same thing in their position. They know that most of the fighters aren't going to fuck with them, so they might as well sit back and save their energy until only the fighters strong or ballsy enough to challenge them are left.

On the other hand, the least they could do is save their damn teammates. Aren't the Pride Troopers supposed to be a heroic, close-knit team? Why is Kunshi the only member who's even tried to save someone else?

edited 3rd Sep '17 1:01:31 PM by TyeDyeWildebeest

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#63422: Sep 3rd 2017 at 1:01:43 PM

[up]X5

Fair enough.

Random thought. The only non-Goku fight that Yamcha has ever won (that didn't end with the other guy committing suicide on both of them) was against the Invisible Man.

In contrast, Krillin (before the Saiyan saga) loses both of his non tournament fights (Vampire Man and General Blue respectively). I find that funny.

edited 3rd Sep '17 1:02:05 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#63423: Sep 3rd 2017 at 1:04:54 PM

I mean, at least manga-wise, Hit was never a threat to either Vegeta and Goku without his killing techniques; Goku matched his full power as SSG, surpassed that as SSB, and a point was made afterwards that Vegeta would have actually won against Hit, if he hadn't been an idiot and wasted so much energy and stamina by showing off against Cabba when he didn't need to, especially since we know that version of Vegeta could use God as well.

edited 3rd Sep '17 1:05:50 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#63424: Sep 3rd 2017 at 1:12:16 PM

[up][up][up] I'd chalk it up to lack of care.

They wanted to rid of the Pride Troopers who are clearly not important-extras so they did so in a half-assed manner that doesn't make sense with what the characters are supposed to be about.

There is no logical reason for why Jiren & Toppo couldn't bother to save their allies.

edited 3rd Sep '17 1:23:20 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#63425: Sep 3rd 2017 at 1:20:41 PM

Hit's weaker than Blue in the anime too, remember Vegeta commenting how soft and slow his punches were? Hit's strength comes from his Timeskip, combined with his pressure point knowledge, combined with his invisible phasing ki blasts, combined with his ability to shift into his own personal pocket dimension to phase through attacks.

Also, I'm real happy at how strong Maji=Kayo's turning out to be.

edited 3rd Sep '17 1:21:44 PM by PushoverMediaCritic


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