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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#63226: Aug 28th 2017 at 8:04:57 PM

They mention just using the wish to locate him, then going and killing him before the Androids are ready.

Anyway, with indirect wishes it's hard to say what would actually work, it'd be pure guesswork and I'm sure another reason would come up for why it wouldn't work.

It's a pretty obvious hole, I think the dragons (being fairly benevolent) should have just had a moral code against killing/interferring with others and would refuse to allow even indirect wishes that would do that.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#63227: Aug 28th 2017 at 8:06:27 PM

[up] If that's the case then that means things like reviving Freeza would be impossible since doing so would indirectly lead to a lot of deaths.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#63228: Aug 28th 2017 at 8:56:30 PM

No, that's not done for the purpose of killing people, and even if it were it's still not making the dragon do the killing.

The Dragons are sentient and could apply their own judgement - even if you were reviving someone to have them kill another person, that's none of the dragon's business. But asking the dragon to wish away the Saiyan's spacepods or send them into the sun/an asteroid is totally making the dragon kill them.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#63229: Aug 28th 2017 at 9:00:31 PM

That's a good point, but it's never stated that the dragon can't kill anyone, and the one time it's tried, they ran head first into the stronger than my greater, plz nerf issue.

Saying the dragon can't kill anyone (or grant an indirect wish that results in someone's death) would have made a lot of sense, but like many things, I'm thinking Toriyama didn't think of it.

One Strip! One Strip!
Gehayadren Bad Movie Binge Collector from A Garbage Fire Since: Jun, 2016 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#63230: Aug 28th 2017 at 9:33:12 PM

They could have turned Earth invisible, and no one would be able to find it.

Ha ha ha. What a story, Mark.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#63231: Aug 28th 2017 at 9:40:02 PM

[up][up] No, I was saying the dragons should have originally been written with that moral limitation to prevent the Fridge Logic of being able to abuse them.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#63232: Aug 28th 2017 at 10:36:27 PM

I think turning the Earth invisible would cause a lot of problems to everyone on the Earth.

By the way, I'm fine now, I drank a literal gallon of water throughout the day and now I'm able to properly react to Yamcha in Fighterz. Yay, Yamcha's in Fighterz! Hopefully if he's playable they do some cool things with his Wolf Fang Fist and Spirit Ball.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#63233: Aug 28th 2017 at 11:23:30 PM

Yamcha's inclusion almost certainly pushes out the roster size beyond the rumoured 17 characters.

He's not confirmed as a playable fighter, but I'd say 90% likely he's in - the VA comments would make littlr sense if he's only in the game as a support or story mode character.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#63234: Aug 28th 2017 at 11:37:21 PM

Spoiler: He's the real Big Bad and final boss of the game.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#63235: Aug 29th 2017 at 3:55:15 AM

Mmm, so, what's the stance on the Super manga in this Wiki? Because the recaps and the like seem to only reference the anime version of the events; shouldn't both versions be included?

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#63236: Aug 29th 2017 at 4:03:02 AM

They already do, but I'm making a manga page to make the manga information easier to find.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#63237: Aug 29th 2017 at 5:35:21 AM

The two are so different shouldn't there be entirely different sets of recaps?

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#63238: Aug 29th 2017 at 6:25:44 AM

The recaps are set by arc rather than by episode tho, and at that degree of detail they are fairly similar. Wouldn't really argue against a separate set, however.

edited 29th Aug '17 6:27:36 AM by Eriorguez

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#63239: Aug 29th 2017 at 4:30:53 PM

Bulma wanted to use the Dragon Balls to find Gero since they couldn't kill him, but Vegeta threatened to go Saiyan Saga on everyone again and Goku was all "Well, he hasn't done anything bad yet."

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#63240: Aug 29th 2017 at 4:33:14 PM

Even though he created the machines that the Red Ribbon used to hurt a lot of people.

He was kinda a criminal, so going after him and taking him to the police to lock away forever would have saved them a lot of trouble, if Vegeta didn't have to satisfy his pride boner, or Goku used his brain.

One Strip! One Strip!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#63241: Aug 29th 2017 at 4:41:39 PM

The Android and Buu Sagas all depended on the characters letting the villains succeed and get what they want. If there's one thing I liked about Zamasu, is that he avoided that.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#63242: Aug 29th 2017 at 4:50:53 PM

Well ya know, aside from the whole "Goku forgot the seal for Mafuba or Senzu Beans" But that didn't really benefit Zamasu, so yea.

Its funny how Zamasu is actually really effective as a villain, both as himself and Black.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#63243: Aug 29th 2017 at 5:23:41 PM

His very first move was to kill the fuck out of the only guy who could stop him.

So yeah, extremely effective. He also chose a really good way to do it that gave him long term benefits.

Then he teamed up with the only dude who he knew would not only go along with his plans, but he could trust not to betray him.

...I mean, I'm sure he mad some mistakes, because everyone does, but I can't think of any.

One Strip! One Strip!
DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#63244: Aug 29th 2017 at 5:30:15 PM

He made the mistake of not anticipating Time Travel.

And forgetting that Zen'O exists.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#63245: Aug 29th 2017 at 5:31:38 PM

He perfectly avoided Zeno for a long time though.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#63246: Aug 29th 2017 at 5:33:37 PM

Speaking of whom, I still find it kind of weird how destroying Future!Trunks' timeline was supposed to show how unpredictable he is.

If my understanding of the situation is corrected, there was literally nothing else that could have been done at that point.

edited 29th Aug '17 5:46:10 PM by LSBK

DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#63247: Aug 29th 2017 at 5:41:52 PM

Indeed, though the anime kinda glosses over it, I think the manga was explicit that Zamasu had killed ALL the gods in ALL the universes, and was genociding everything else. In that case, the universes of that timeline were empty of (intelligent) life, and he when he went all Skybox he was spilling over into other timelines as well.

So erasing that timeline at that point does make sense... there's nothing left to save.

How the hell Zen'O (or at the very least the Grand Priest) missed someone going around committing mass deicide is beyond me, though. I know he's kind of hands-off for the most part, but if ANYTHING should get his attention, it's that.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#63248: Aug 29th 2017 at 5:42:04 PM

Check the manga. Zeno doesn't really think about repairing or creating anything new, he just destroys what he doesn't like. The Gods of Destruction are balanced by a Kaioshin who is pretty much a God of Creation, but Zeno is unbalanced and solves problems by destroying stuff.

Needs to be educated, and needs to learn a different way of solving conflict. But what better than an equal to learn to disagree?

edited 29th Aug '17 5:44:26 PM by Eriorguez

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#63249: Aug 29th 2017 at 6:31:18 PM

In the manga, as bad as Zamasu was, I'm not sure if he was enough of a threat to justify destroying the entire universe.

In the anime, he was a mindless, hate filled, bodiless Eldritch Abomination that was threatening to leak into other timelines that pretty much left nuking it the only option.

In the manga, he was just an army of me.

But Zen-O has no sense of scale. He doesn't like something, he just destroys it.

One Strip! One Strip!
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#63250: Aug 29th 2017 at 6:34:26 PM

Granted, that army of Zamasu might have also had Time Rings for all of them, meaning you got a slowly growing horde of immortal monsters with complete access to every timeline, and every universe in them. Hell, if we're going off of Xenoverse 2, he could have gotten into the Time Nest as well...

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!

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