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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#6226: Apr 25th 2014 at 1:29:32 PM

Was King Vegeta born with a beard?

I mean, a Saiyan's hair supposedly never changes from the day they're born.

And I'm now imagining that Vegeta's dad had that beard from the moment they took him out of the incubator.

Randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#6227: Apr 25th 2014 at 10:07:29 PM

They knew then that he would be the new King.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#6229: Apr 26th 2014 at 10:33:58 AM

So I was listening to a Kanzenshuu podcast the other day, and they mentioned how great Vegeta's Japanese death scene against Buu was... but I just don't think it is.

Japanese version

English version

Here's why I think the English version's take on this scene is leagues better. Vegeta here, is sacrificing everything to destroy this monster and protect the ones he loves. He isn't sad about it in the least, and is perfectly accepting of his fate. For him, it's the final battle of a noble warrior, and he's gonna die honorably. This is why his theme song kicking in when he's about to do it is so great: it's a sort of final hoorah for this warrior.

The Japanese version is perfect... for when he was going to be killed by Frieza. There he was defeated, completely and utterly defeated. He had completely given up hope, and that fear he felt forced him to accept they were all going to die there. Compare that to his Buu Arc self, where he willingly offered up his life for "someone other than himself." Cutting the theme and being all somber just doesn't belong here because it really doesn't fit Vegeta's mental state here. When he's gonna use the Finale Explosion he wasn't "man, I can't believe I'm gonna die," he was, "I'm doing this for you, Trunks, Bulma and Kakarot."

Overall, I think the dub did the right thing here.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#6230: Apr 26th 2014 at 10:35:33 AM

Agreed. I hate the idea that an adaptation is incapable of transcending the source material.

Randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#6231: Apr 26th 2014 at 1:27:20 PM

[up][up]He's the one who was killing himself anyway. He was gonna die, so if he was afraid of dying(again)why would he be the one killing himself.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#6232: Apr 26th 2014 at 6:29:41 PM

I'm not seeing any significant difference between the two scenes, actually. The biggest difference is that in the Japanese version Vegeta simply says farewell to Trunks/Bulma/Goku rather than saying that it's for them, but with Piccolo's dialogue the meaning is functionally the same.

So I don't get where the differences come from. Was that mentioned in the podcast? Because they have a habit on exaggerating any differences and taking extreme interpretations of things so they can make out that the two versions are more different than they are (and then praising the Japanese version).

FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#6233: Apr 27th 2014 at 6:27:37 AM

It looks like Sailor Moon Crystal is about to become the latest victim of Toei Animation's penny pinching. The new character designs look very weird and somewhat cheap, many of the original voice actors of the supporting cast have been re-cast and there will only be two episodes per month. These aren't good signs...

edited 27th Apr '14 9:48:48 AM by FireShadow

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#6234: Apr 27th 2014 at 8:02:11 AM

are the new VA's bad or something?

ScorpioRat from Houston, Texas Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
#6235: Apr 27th 2014 at 8:06:39 AM

Some are from Pre-Cure. And besides, some of the originals retired or moved onto other things. And I don't think the designs are bad. Just different. Have you seen the full body pictures yet?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#6236: Apr 27th 2014 at 9:08:28 PM

And there is a reason they're different - those designs are based more closely on the manga, if anything they blend the anime and manga styles quite well. I wasn't a huge fan of the manga's art so I was apprehensive about what designs the reboot would go with but I think they've outdone my expectations.

Two episodes a month is probably for the best. Otherwise, Toei would probably just cut corners elsewhere.wink Of all the ways to be stingy, this is the least damaging to the final product.

RandomGuy96 Since: Apr, 2014
#6237: Apr 28th 2014 at 12:48:59 AM

DBZ is great until Buu arc. Perfect Cell was the most badass villain and it felt like a good ending. Buu Saga was a giant troll turd.

FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#6238: Apr 28th 2014 at 11:31:10 AM

[up] While everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I gotta warn you, about 90% of the people on this forum hate the Cell Arc because it's essentially an Idiot Plot and while Buu Arc certainly divides some fans, but when compared with the Cell Arc, the majority of people see it as superior because the heroes and villains were way more savvy.

edited 28th Apr '14 1:21:20 PM by FireShadow

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#6239: Apr 28th 2014 at 12:07:55 PM

I can't agree that the heroes were more savvy. Goku and Vegeta repeat their most-ridiculed actions from the Cell Saga, on a larger scale. Goku consciously refuses to resolve the plot and instead leaves his kids to do it instead - on multiple occasions - while Vegeta goes out of his way to help the villain become more powerful again.

But unlike the Cell Saga, the two characters are actively punished for their mistakes and are forced to learn and grow from them. Goku's insistence on his family fighting the villain in his stead gets his entire family massacred by Majin Buu, while Vegeta is forced to grow the hell up, make peace with the fact that he is not and will never be the biggest dog in the yard, leave his ego behind him, and move forward. In the end, Goku has to fight Majin Buu, and Vegeta has to come up with a plan that involves using himself as a meatshield rather than the centerpiece.

edited 28th Apr '14 12:09:30 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#6240: Apr 28th 2014 at 3:15:29 PM

I also like Cell, despite being aware of many of the mistakes the characters made during the arc.

Buu may have been more powerful and beat the Cell out in regenerative ability, but I still kinda liked Cell. He was like some weird culmination of every foe Goku had every faced all in one.

I always theorized that his actions with Gohan during the Cell series came from misconstruing Gohan's motives. He'd never seen the latter fight except under a few occasions, and clearly thought Gohan loved a good fight as much as he did. He never realized until he was called out on it that Gohan just doesn't enjoy fighting as much as a pure blooded saiyan, and likely, their time training during this arc (the three years before the Androids appeared, and then the year in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber) only furthered this misunderstanding. He understood Gohan's power, but not his desires.

Edit: I should also add that while his execution was poor, his logic on why the kids needed to learn to fight wasn't so bad:

Earth kept getting put on the chopping block, and he was dead. Sure, he could beat Buu, but when the next threat came (and there was always a next threat. Buu would have happened whether he came back to life or not) what then?

Gohan, Trunks and Goten really were probably the best chance to turn things around. Remember that even at Super Saiyan three, Goku wasn't really strong enough to beat Buu.

edited 28th Apr '14 3:18:39 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#6241: Apr 28th 2014 at 3:55:18 PM

Buu happening with or without Goku is debatable. Without Goku's insistence on Gohan fighting Dabura, Vegeta may have blown right through him, obliterated Babidi, and Buu would have remained sealed away in his pod - Vegeta argues this option with Goku in the lead-up to that fight. His growing frustration with Goku's insistence on Gohan fighting Dabura and Gohan's inability to defeat Dabura directly resulted in Majin Vegeta fighting Goku and awakening Majin Buu.

Conversely, Goku saving Mr. Satan and Fat Buu rather than his sons when the world exploded resulted in Majin Buu's final defeat. That wound up being a key element of the plot's resolution: instead of just having his own progeny carry his torch and be the big heroes of the universe, it was the combined power of the people of Earth as a whole that destroyed Majin Buu.

edited 28th Apr '14 3:56:46 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
RandomGuy96 Since: Apr, 2014
#6242: Apr 28th 2014 at 4:04:05 PM

I don't agree that the characters act more savvy in the Buu arc, both Goku and Vegeta do the same shit in the Buu arc. Cell was an incredible villain who only turned "dumb" conveniently when the plot needed the hero to win. Even with that I felt like the Cell arc really made for a good ending. The Buu arc felt redundant to me, maybe if it was a movie spinoff I could have got into it.

edited 28th Apr '14 4:06:18 PM by RandomGuy96

Spirit Pretty flower from America Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Pretty flower
#6243: Apr 28th 2014 at 4:16:32 PM

@Drake

Arguable. Without Goku around being a constant reminder that Vegeta will always be #2 Vegeta might have enough of a level head to just blow through Pui Pui, Yakon, and Dabura fast enough to prevent Buu's resurrection. But it's just as likely that Vegeta would still let his pride and thirst for a good fight get in the way and allow Buu to resurrect if Dabura didn't give him a good enough fight.

#IceBearForPresident
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#6244: Apr 28th 2014 at 4:19:24 PM

I can deal with Cell's dumbness, because he has both the Blood Knight tendencies of all the saiyans, and the combined egos of Frieza and Vegeta.

He spent his whole life being told that if he absorbs the Androids, he'll be the biggest Bad Ass in existence. And when he pulled it off, he quite understandably believed it since it seemed to be true. Combine that with being able to regenerate from anything that might actually hurt him (an ability that even surpassed what his own expectations), the knowledge of nearly every damned technique around, and the fact that he kinda Younger Than He Looks (remember, time travel aside, he's about what, five years old; that's the time he spent regrowing after reverting to larval form, and the time before that when he was searching for the Androids in the future, which we never learn the length of).

He's essentially a child handed unlimited power, no matter how smoothly he talks. When you think about it, he was incredibly restrained for somebody he just had ultimate power handed to him, though he did have to look for it a bit.

One Strip! One Strip!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#6245: Apr 28th 2014 at 4:20:04 PM

I always had two problems with the Buu arc.

1. It dragged on forever. I know, I know, Dragon Ball likes to do that but it was particularly bad during the Buu arc in my opinion. I think part of this has to do with point 2.

2. There were a ton of power ups that didn't really need to exist. The saga can basically be summed up as: "Super Saiyan 3 will stop Buu! Nope. Okay, let's try Fusion! Nope. Umm...Z Sword! Shit, it broke. Okay, let's try Mystic Gohan! God dammit! Uh...err...Potara Fusion? Yes, Buu is on the ropes, now we can...shit, Vegito is gone! What's left, the spirit bomb? It never works but we don't have any other...wait, it worked? Hooray!"

Seriously, half of those things should have been removed. This isn't even something I picked up on after I got off my Dragon Ball high and grew up a little. Even as a kid I kept getting frustrated that it seemed like they were finally going to beat him only for Buu to Diabolus ex Machina his way out of it.

It's not even that I dislike the individual ideas. I just wish they were spread out more and actually given a chance to be effective like the Kaioken and Super Saiyan were.

RandomGuy96 Since: Apr, 2014
#6246: Apr 28th 2014 at 5:01:14 PM

They just introduced a lot of characters that never seemed to go anymore: Videl, Trunks, Goten, Supreme Kai, and whatever his bodyguard was called. Even the reinvented Adult Goan felt pointless with his Mystic power-up.

Cruherrx I say things. from my own little world Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
I say things.
#6247: Apr 28th 2014 at 9:16:58 PM

Cell Arc was great. Buu Arc was greater.

"If you weren't so crazy I'd think you were insane."
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#6248: Apr 29th 2014 at 7:07:49 PM

Did we ever get some kind of indication on when Battle of the Gods would be dubbed in English? I feel like watching it at some point but I generally avoid subs.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#6249: Apr 29th 2014 at 7:49:45 PM

As long as Fox holds the distribution rights for the movie, we are not going to get it until at least 2015 or 2016.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#6250: Apr 29th 2014 at 8:07:12 PM

What? Bullshit. Why would they wait that long? If anything that would just cause people to stop caring so it flops whenever it does get dubbed.


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