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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#62301: Aug 7th 2017 at 8:12:37 PM

[up][up]Because Super. That's the real answer. If you want the "canon" answer I believe it was 17 and 18 just naturally grow stronger over the years without training.

[up][up][up]This post assumes that Super is consistent with power levels.

edited 7th Aug '17 8:13:01 PM by LSBK

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#62302: Aug 7th 2017 at 8:13:42 PM

Am pleased 18 is still relevant, at least. I'd like to see her and her brother learn their real names somehow in this show.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#62303: Aug 7th 2017 at 8:17:56 PM

Cause 17 has been ranging the shit out of that park, that's why.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#62304: Aug 7th 2017 at 8:19:18 PM

[up] The guy in your avatar is being built up as the Final Boss of this arc, right?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#62305: Aug 7th 2017 at 8:21:28 PM

Supposedly, though the Grand Priest is giving off 'bad guy' vibes harder than a Catholic priest.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#62306: Aug 7th 2017 at 8:22:03 PM

[up][up]

I'll answer that.

Yes. Yes he is.

Because Super. That's the real answer. If you want the "canon" answer I believe it was 17 and 18 just naturally grow stronger over the years without training.

I thought it was said that they could grow stronger with Training. I mean, I know they won't really grow weaker due to their infinite energy, but has it been said they can just keep getting more powerful without the need to train? Who said it: Toei or Toriyama?

edited 7th Aug '17 8:22:21 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#62307: Aug 7th 2017 at 8:22:43 PM

[up][up][up] You mean Jiren?

Well if going by the OP & how much build-up he's been getting, apparently so.

edited 7th Aug '17 8:25:07 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#62308: Aug 7th 2017 at 9:06:27 PM

There's been a lot of build up for Jiren, but so far he hasn't really done anything aside from slap Kale with an energy blast.

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#62309: Aug 7th 2017 at 9:17:29 PM

[up][up][up][up] Toriyama has stated that the Androids could get much stronger if they trained, which is exactly what 17's been doing for the past decade since the Cell Saga.

Considering that during the Cell Saga 17 was stronger than some untrained Super Saiyans and was on par with a Super Namekian without the need for training, it doesn't surprise me he has had major gains over the years.

edited 7th Aug '17 9:17:42 PM by Rinsankajugin

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#62310: Aug 7th 2017 at 9:18:27 PM

Yeah Jiren is kind of boring so far. Toppo is way more entertaining.

How'd 17 get jacked up that much?

Fighting poachers mostly.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#62311: Aug 7th 2017 at 9:19:21 PM

Has he been training, or has he just been doing a job where he has to be hands on? Because those are not the same thing. And has 18 also just been training constantly since the Cell Saga?

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#62312: Aug 7th 2017 at 9:21:14 PM

Which is weird, since we kind of assumed that him giving energy back during the Buu Saga for the Super Spirit Bomb involved his park ranger job, once that info came out, yet here 17 is wearing a completely different outfit than back then, protecting animals on an island of all things (which, I'm not sure how that relates to him being a park ranger), and dealing with both alien poachers and human poachers who apparently have access to giant submarine bases.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#62313: Aug 7th 2017 at 9:21:43 PM

Shit then there banking entirely on Jiren's eventual fight with Goku to make him cool then things like giving him character, interactions with other characters & just doing shit in general like an actual person.

[up] He could have gotten a promotion or transfer.

edited 7th Aug '17 9:22:24 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#62314: Aug 7th 2017 at 9:35:23 PM

[up][up][up] It doesn't seem like 18's been training since the Cell Saga, in fact I think she just barely started seriously training until recently, around the time Krillin got all that training equipment.

ComicX6 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#62315: Aug 7th 2017 at 9:35:40 PM

Jiren isn't really even a character at the moment, just an obstacle. Plus not ringing Kale out when she was at his mercy was Goku-tier decision-making.

My Megaman and MegaTen RPG Liveblogs
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#62316: Aug 7th 2017 at 9:37:11 PM

Even the idea that 17 got much stronger just fighting off poachers really doesn't make sense either, no matter how many years he may have been doing.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#62317: Aug 7th 2017 at 9:42:46 PM

Hmmh worried that they will be half-assing Jiren.

Trying too hard to make him look badass instead of actually being badass.

Him just standing around like an arrogant ass rather disappoints me.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#62318: Aug 7th 2017 at 9:50:06 PM

Power scaling in Super is really, really bad. They have Hit struggle with Goku in SSGSS form, but than he later manages to hold his own agains X10 SSGSS Kaioken Goku. They have Gohan fighting evenly with SS Goku, but than in the latest arc, it's revealed he still had not gotten back his Ultimate form (implying that up until that point, he had been weaker than he was while fighting Super Buu). They have Roshi defeating Tien even though Tien started off stronger than Roshi, has been training just as long as he has, and got training opportunities that Roshi did not. They have Lavenda remaining unscathed from Gohan, Piccolo, Roshi, and Krillin's blasts, even though Gohan beat him on his own two days ago when he was far weaker and blinded. Really, Super has abysmal consistency with power.

jjj
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#62319: Aug 7th 2017 at 9:54:16 PM

Hit was gettin stronger during the fight was he not?

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#62320: Aug 7th 2017 at 9:55:46 PM

I don't think Hit got stronger in the "his power level is increasing" kind of way, but he did increase his capabilities in regards to time stopping.

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#62321: Aug 7th 2017 at 10:16:36 PM

Oh, and I just remembered! Back during the Battle of Gods Saga, Beerus said that Vegeta made him use close to 10% of his power. Goku, as a SSG, made Beerus power up several times. As a SSGSS (or SSB), Goku is even stronger. Goku spent 3 years training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber for the tournament. By the time of the tournament, SSGSS Goku should clearly be well over 10% of Beeruis's power. However, not long before Goku used his 10 x SSGSS Kaioken, there was an interview in which Toriyama stated that he didn't have any plans for Goku or Vegeta to surpass Beerus or Whis at the time. See the problem? A truly awful combination of piss poor powerscaling and Writers Cannot Do Math.

jjj
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#62322: Aug 7th 2017 at 11:16:15 PM

We've been watching this show for two years now and ya'll are still trying to make sense of Super's power scaling...Honestly, its less of a headache to just simply not think about it.

Because ya know, Super is dumb as fuck and it revels in it...

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#62323: Aug 7th 2017 at 11:28:10 PM

I though the idea was that 17 and 18 had years of unused infintely generating energy built up.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#62324: Aug 7th 2017 at 11:34:07 PM

I'd like to argue that energy idea or that Cell's absorbtion heavily changed them but then I remember that 18 had trouble fighting Goten & Trunks.

The women was effectively pushed back & matched by two children (Saiyan's yes but children regardless) despite the latter two being in an extremly constricting disguise.

Power scaling was bullshit even sorta back then of course.

edited 7th Aug '17 11:34:53 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#62325: Aug 8th 2017 at 12:26:26 AM

How did 17 get strong enough to take on Super Saiyan Blue Goku? Because Toei/Toriayama/Toyoaytaro said so.

"Mai waifu."

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