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GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#61876: Jul 29th 2017 at 9:08:20 AM

[up] Indeed, God ki really needed to be fleshed out and explained more thoroughly as it seems like characters Golden Frieza, Hit, Jiren, Android 17, Kale, etc can some how match supposedly godly saiyans like Goku. Super Saiyan God just appears to be Super Saiyan with a different tint and Suer Saiytan blue is just a Super Saiyan recolor.

"Mai waifu."
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#61877: Jul 29th 2017 at 10:40:46 AM

Yeah, so many people being able to match god powered Goku is rather stupid.

Super sayian Blue has been way overused in this arc for sure, and it definitely lost a big part of it's credibility and specialiness. Not that it had terribly much of it anyway, since in the very movie it was introduced in it was immediately on-upped by Golden Freeza.

I just hope that this new form will be really good and will allow Goku to kick some ass like in the old days.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#61878: Jul 29th 2017 at 10:43:09 AM

I'd also like for an epic transformation sequence punctuated with tons of screaming, the world shaking & people shitting themselves.

The first time Super Saiyan 3 is seen is still killer.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#61879: Jul 29th 2017 at 10:44:20 AM

I disagree. It goes on for way too long and then he still doesn't beat Buu.

edited 29th Jul '17 10:44:45 AM by Zeromaeus

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#61880: Jul 29th 2017 at 10:48:59 AM

I really want Goku to just curbstomp Jiren with his new transformation. Not because I have anything against Jiren, but because the last time Goku dominated in a fight with anyone of importance was Namek saga. Heck he didn't beat any of the arc villains by himself since then and flat out didn't beat half of them at all. He's really overdue an awesome, decisive victory by now.

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#61881: Jul 29th 2017 at 10:50:30 AM

I get what you all are saying and mostly agree, but they have been 'god' tier for a long time. Kami, King Kai and Shinn were all blown passed without a second thought. I think people get this idea of god ki as some huge nigh impossible power boost when it actually seems to be more about control and other uses. God ki can be used the same in combat, but also seems to be able to do things you just can't with mortal ki.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#61882: Jul 29th 2017 at 10:56:03 AM

Gods were never special in terms of power ceiling, I agree. That's why the attempt to make God Ki special now hasn't worked for the most part. Only the manga has kept Super Saiyan God and Blue strictly above mortal Ki.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#61883: Jul 29th 2017 at 11:00:31 AM

Well, in the manga, the only non-deity to be on par with Super Saiyan Blue is supposedly Golden Freeza, which we didn't see firsthand. Well, or other users of the form; Rosé is Black's take on that very form, and Merged Zamasu is made with an user of that form.

Yeah, that's something I readily give the manga; the divine ki forms are far beyond mortals so far. Freeza gets a bit of a pass, being an aberration born FAR stronger than every mortal but Piccolo, the Saiyans and the cyborgs.

(And, Hit giving up against an weaker opponent makes FAR more sense when an stronger opponent gave up against him, in my opinion).

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#61884: Jul 29th 2017 at 11:06:52 AM

I mean masako even points out that blue has extremely good ki control. That has been mentioned in the show before, but mostly ignored. There is an actual explanation beyond just shitty writing(which is still an issue I agree) for Krillin and other having an chance at all against blue. Though Krillin didn't really.

The issue to me is them still using non blue ssj forms. I still think it would have been better if they had blue just be 'using divine ki to go ssj' and therefore it completely replaces the mortal versions.

edited 29th Jul '17 11:09:30 AM by Jedi1113

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#61885: Jul 29th 2017 at 11:20:52 AM

Again, SSGSS seemed to originally be just Super Saiyan God with Super Saiyan being used as a conduit for it; it most likely was just as strong as the original form, with Goku and Vegeta only being stronger than God Goku from the last movie because of their training with Whis.

In a way, SSGSS was to Super Saiyan God what Super Saiyan 4 was to Golden Oozaru; a perfected, more controlled version of the original.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#61886: Jul 29th 2017 at 11:45:09 AM

I kinda like how the manga runs with the whole "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" name and made it pretty much going Super Saiyan as a Super Saiyan God. Strong, but draining due to being two transformations stacked on top of another, and mastering it gives a hefty room for improvement.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#61887: Jul 29th 2017 at 11:52:32 AM

The transformation was dead on arrival when it was mocked, immediately, in-universe. Freeza wasn't even in awe or fear of it, he was just like "The fuck is this bullshit? Get the fuck outta here. Fuck you."

My various fanfics.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#61888: Jul 29th 2017 at 11:57:22 AM

Of course he wouldn't, Frieza could never sense ki to begin with, so he'd never under the major differences between that form and Super Saiyan. Plus, the guy was never really sane after his first defeat at Goku's hands, so getting killed and being trapped in Hell for nearly two decades isn't doing him any favors, especially when he thinks that Golden Frieza was enough to deal with anything he'd face with Goku, to the point where he immediately left for Earth after gaining it.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#61889: Jul 29th 2017 at 12:09:10 PM

Also God Ki can't be sense by anyone but other gods.

Frieza had no real way to know the form was power, even if he was initially stronger.

Though it doesn't make Sharknado totally wrong. Having someone gleefully mock it did kinda affect it's credibility, alongside Frieza being stronger at least for a while.

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#61890: Jul 29th 2017 at 12:10:33 PM

Especially when he accurately points out its nothing more than Super Saiyan in blue hair dye.

Sure his Golden Form is similarly simple but it doesn't make the mocking any less valid.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#61891: Jul 29th 2017 at 12:31:20 PM

And its complete ineffectiveness makes Freeza basically right.

edited 29th Jul '17 12:31:30 PM by SonOfSharknado

My various fanfics.
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#61892: Jul 29th 2017 at 12:33:43 PM

Well, in Resurrection F it is on par with Golden Freeza, then steadily turns it into easily overpowering him. If that's complete ineffectiveness for you, well, if you want to complain, at least reason a bit before going into tirades.

So no, I disagree.

edited 29th Jul '17 12:37:05 PM by Eriorguez

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#61893: Jul 29th 2017 at 12:57:49 PM

Golden Freeza outclassed Goku. He only lost because his Golden Form wasn't properly trained and as a result caused him to lose power rapidly.

edited 29th Jul '17 12:57:59 PM by VeryMelon

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#61894: Jul 29th 2017 at 12:58:35 PM

Also, considering the fact that Frieza was, you know, unable to actually kill Goku before he started losing steam, despite his so-called power advantage, Frieza was only marginally stronger than Goku, at best.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#61895: Jul 29th 2017 at 1:08:01 PM

I never said Freeza would have killed Goku in seconds, just that he was stronger until his power bled.

edited 29th Jul '17 1:13:02 PM by VeryMelon

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#61896: Jul 29th 2017 at 1:25:38 PM

Yes, and do you also remember Frieza seriously injuring Goku at all during that fight? No, he didn't; the fight was at best a repeat of the anime's version of the final stage of the Goku vs Frieza fight, with Frieza having the advantage in this case, up until he pulled the same mistake back in that last fight and never trained his control over his full power.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#61897: Jul 29th 2017 at 1:33:43 PM

You're reinterpreting my words into something I never meant in order to have an argument to dismiss. That's a strawman, and if that's all you have for me then this conversation is done.

srebak Since: Feb, 2011
#61898: Jul 29th 2017 at 1:38:12 PM

Just out of of curiosity;

What was the episode from the original Dragon Ball show where Goku's arms basically bulged out when he was using the kamehameha wave?

Envyus Since: Jun, 2011
#61899: Jul 29th 2017 at 1:42:56 PM

Golden Freeza did hand Goku his ass and was winning handly. In fact Goku pointed out he was playing around with him and could had already won the fight if he had not felt like playing with him.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#61900: Jul 29th 2017 at 2:15:05 PM

Ok I'm slowly watching the episodes to catch up, currently on 89 but I had to ask this:

Why the fuck is everyone such dumbfucks? 17 & Cauli are told straight up that the Universe is gonna get erased & their response is they don't care? Are they insane or in the latter's case stupid as hell? Seriously do these people not have a survival instinct?

17 is even worse cause it never enters his mind that his beloved wife & children are in danger. He should have joined without hesitation if he's a family man. What's so incomprehensible about this situation?

edited 29th Jul '17 2:15:37 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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