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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#61551: Jul 23rd 2017 at 12:48:37 PM

I want to like Kale, but I find (apparently romantic) jealousy to be one of the cheapest and most irritating motivations you can give a character, so that makes it hard. Otherwise, I like the idea of someone on a team being a danger to themselves and others, even members of their own team.

But this episode made me like Caulifa a lot more, so I guess it balances out.

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#61552: Jul 23rd 2017 at 12:53:21 PM

I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but I think it's kind of interesting that Kale's transformation appears to be triggered by sadness and self-loathing, rather than anger. We could call her the Incredible Sulk.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
zsmg Since: Jul, 2011
#61553: Jul 23rd 2017 at 12:55:20 PM

That, and it's pretty hypocritical of her to berate him for that, considering she almost met the same fate at the hands of Shosa.

And if she had Kururin's back Frost wouldn't be able to kick him out of the ring.

Still a valuable lesson for Team Nerd, just stick together and ignore the rest of your "team" they're not going to help you in any circumstances.

Meanwhile over at Universe 6, Hit is using ZA WARUDO to save his teammates. What a guy.

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#61554: Jul 23rd 2017 at 12:59:00 PM

See I don't see it as romantic at all. People naturally jump to that, but I see it as more of a mentor/big sister thing. Caulifla is the only person who believes in/values Kale (at least in her mind). Kale loses it because once she unbottles all that repressed hate it is hard to keep in. I mean ssj2 Gohan had a completely different attitude than he normally does so I don't see why blind emotional berserker Kale is that different.

ComicX6 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#61555: Jul 23rd 2017 at 1:05:22 PM

"Be careful Kakarrot!" "I am being careful!" I'm super ambivalent on Kale (art imitates life hey-o!) But Goku deserved that ragdolling session there.

His interactions with Caulifla though we pretty fun and it would be nice if they expanded on his unlikely mentor ship in the future to retroactively foreshadow Uub. Also everyone makes the "notice me senpai" jokes about Kale when that was literally what Cabba was doing this week. Poor guy's been knocked down to Gotten tier since the introduction of the girls and he knows it.

My Megaman and MegaTen RPG Liveblogs
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#61556: Jul 23rd 2017 at 1:10:17 PM

[up][up]Because Gohan had years worth of buildup to unleashing his power.

And I want to set the record straight here, the reason I'm not particularly fond of Kale is because I feel like her character is extremely one-dimensional. Yea, she has self-hatred and jealousy issues I never denied those traits, but nothing is actually being done with them outside of just using them as catalysts for a berserker rage.

And there's the fact that her rage is literally triggered by the most petty of reasons (Sounds familiar doesn't it :V). Everything we criticize Broly for exists in Kale, but it's ok for the latter I guess?

I just...don't care about her. If nothing else, I like how much Caulifa cares about her but that's about it.

edited 23rd Jul '17 1:10:45 PM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#61557: Jul 23rd 2017 at 1:15:48 PM

It is fine if you don't like her , I don't either. I've just seen a lot of 'dumb yandere, fuck toei' type stuff and wanted to point out there is more depth there. They are wasting it, but still it is there.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#61558: Jul 23rd 2017 at 1:17:16 PM

If Kale asks if truce is the same as Coffin, I might be inclined to change my mind.cool

Always found that particular dub line funny for some reason.

One Strip! One Strip!
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#61559: Jul 23rd 2017 at 1:18:29 PM

And I want to set the record straight here, the reason I'm not particularly fond of Kale is because I feel like her character is extremely one-dimensional. Yea, she has self-hatred and jealousy issues I never denied those traits, but nothing is actually being done with them outside of just using them as catalysts for a berserker rage.

That's my feelings as well. Kale keeps getting cast in this sympathetic light, and each time it falls flat for me because I just don't give a shit. It's like the writers took for granted that they're using a trope that fans are familiar with and just assume that in and of itself should get people to connect with the character.

edited 23rd Jul '17 1:18:40 PM by Lionheart0

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#61560: Jul 23rd 2017 at 1:25:10 PM

And ya know what, all of this could be fixed if they just changed the context of her rage outs. Instead of getting upset that senpai doesn't notice her, maybe get upset at seeing her comrades in danger and being unable to do anything about it. Not only does it make her more dynamic, it actually gives her a much justified and sympathetic reason for freaking out.

It says a lot when she hasn't had any real meaningful interactions with anyone outside of Caulifa.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#61561: Jul 23rd 2017 at 1:46:24 PM

Kale as a character is basically defined as "Caulifla's apprentice with the self-esteem issues", and I've never been keen on characters who basically have no identity outside of orbiting around one character.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#61562: Jul 23rd 2017 at 1:48:13 PM

So she's a satellite character which is not good.

We need more insight onto her then, some backstory like why does she have so much crippling self-esteem issues or how did her relationship with Cauli start?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#61563: Jul 23rd 2017 at 1:59:31 PM

Why should see get an ounce of development when characters who've been part of the series for years haven't gotten any?

Toss her in a ditch, and light a fire I say.

Extreme? Maybe, but she's had her time in the sun, and she should be damned lucky.

One Strip! One Strip!
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#61564: Jul 23rd 2017 at 2:01:28 PM

But yeah, on another subject; what's up with everyone dunking on Krillin here? Even Team Nerd was barely bothered that he got eliminated.

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#61565: Jul 23rd 2017 at 2:04:31 PM

Toei made Scary Popo canon, and now they're taking another page from TFS and incorporating the Krillin Owned thing?

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#61566: Jul 23rd 2017 at 2:06:32 PM

Then I'm really glad they didn't bring Yamcha in.

No matter how little sense it makes, he would have been found by a Saibaman.

And that's probably the best case scenario.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#61567: Jul 23rd 2017 at 2:08:34 PM

I forgot about this moment, until I was reminded:

Kale: "I-I'm not a bother, am I?"

Caulifla: *turn away silently*

I like Kale. I really do. I also ship it hard.

edited 23rd Jul '17 2:09:23 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#61568: Jul 23rd 2017 at 2:09:57 PM

Being Kale is sin.

Not as much as Sakura, but still pretty close.

One Strip! One Strip!
zsmg Since: Jul, 2011
#61569: Jul 23rd 2017 at 2:22:11 PM

and now they're taking another page from TFS and incorporating the Krillin Owned thing?
Toei already started with the Owned thing before most TFS' members were even born. TFS simply picked it up and ran with it. Hell this isn't even the first time we've seen #18 shaming Kururin, the other time was in a Eo Z filler conversation.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
zsmg Since: Jul, 2011
#61571: Jul 23rd 2017 at 2:38:58 PM

[up]Sorry End of Z, or that final tournament 'arc' where Goku fights Uub.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#61573: Jul 23rd 2017 at 2:40:38 PM

What did she say to him?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#61574: Jul 23rd 2017 at 2:56:05 PM

"And you call yourself my husband....."

Hmmm....if it weren't for Krillin, 18 would've been eliminated, after she stupidly fell for the oldest trick in the book.

That line just fails on so many levels.

LLSmoothJ (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#61575: Jul 23rd 2017 at 3:07:21 PM

[up]x2 She was basically saying that Pan's opponent was so weak that even Krillin could beat him. Then called him a wimp for not entering the tournament.

Oh, you meant in the episode. Not at the End of Z. Disregard, then...

edited 23rd Jul '17 3:08:04 PM by LLSmoothJ


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