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hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#61501: Jul 23rd 2017 at 1:47:27 AM

[up][up]

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure the Yardrat wasn't knocked off. He wasn't shown falling off, and it looked like he teleported somewhere else.

Now, if the Yardrat was simply fed to Caulifla for no fucking reason, then I'd be beyond pissed.

Why waste a character like that? For Caulifla? Really? At least show us a teleporting battle between him and Goku before he jobs.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#61502: Jul 23rd 2017 at 1:52:16 AM

I don't think a character has been eliminated that hasn't been really obvious. I think he was just knocked off-screen.

From his showing, I'm not sure how he's better than Goku though. We didn't get to see what Goku would have done, and his Teleport Spam is something Goku has been able to do in animated mediums before.

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#61503: Jul 23rd 2017 at 2:01:43 AM

Hopefully he has more techniques that incorporate the IT rather than just pure teleport spam.

Looked like he was just taunting Goku before getting blindsided.

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#61504: Jul 23rd 2017 at 4:06:56 AM

In regards to what I'm saying earlier, it feels like Blue is just a major crutch for Goku.

Like, I know he turned Super Saiyan in earlier seasons to keep up with the villains, but it's not like he ever needed to go "Oh shit, I'm in a Full Nelson. Better go Super Saiyan 3 now to get loose." Not to mention that you never had anything like a character who just got on par with Super Saiyan suddenly throwing around his strongest form like it was nothing.

And yeah, not a fan of Kale.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#61505: Jul 23rd 2017 at 4:59:04 AM

[up] That's because, in the original manga, Goku never fought anyone in base after obtaining Super Saiyan and the only times he fought in the Boo Saga was either as a Super Saiyan 2 (against Majin Vegeta) or a SSJ3 (every other time). There was never a point in which what you're describing could happen.

[up][up] I don't know what else you can do with Instant Transmission that Goku hasn't already done. Even if the Yardrat's IT is on part with Kibito's Instantaneous Movement, you wouldn't really be able to tell the difference in battle and the only thing they could do with it in the ToP is something like the Warp Kamehameha (which only worked because Cell let his guard down because he thought Goku was bluffing).

edited 23rd Jul '17 5:01:35 AM by Zelenal

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#61506: Jul 23rd 2017 at 5:16:30 AM

Yeah, the difference with the manga's transformations is that once acquired, they just became the norm. So they don't have moments of really conspicuous sand-bagging against powerful opponents, except when Gotenks is deliberately doing so.

The other part is that the Super Saiyan forms just became the norm to use when they were achieved, hence Goku uses them in every battle since. It's not like how Super has tried to play up Blue as something that should be withheld, because it then makes Goku look bad when he constantly needs to bring it out.

edited 23rd Jul '17 5:18:10 AM by Saiga

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#61507: Jul 23rd 2017 at 5:30:34 AM

I suppose that's fair enough. I still think Blue is ridiculously bad, though, due to how Super is handling it.

Goku was even warned many many times that there are people much much stronger than he in the other universes, so why is it so hard to believe Kaly is one of them?

She literally just turned Super Saiyan for the first time today and is smacking around someone who's supposed to be one of the strongest characters in the series.

edited 23rd Jul '17 5:31:54 AM by Hobgoblin

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#61508: Jul 23rd 2017 at 5:36:06 AM

Hey, just as an aside, did anyone else find the closeup of Belmod in the Episode 101 preview incredibly creepy?

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#61509: Jul 23rd 2017 at 5:48:04 AM

Let's put a smile on that face.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#61510: Jul 23rd 2017 at 7:30:36 AM

[up][up][up] To be fair, I'm not sure if Super is handling anything well. Of course, Blue also had a pathetic showing in its debut movie so that's not entirely Toei's fault.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#61511: Jul 23rd 2017 at 7:34:10 AM

I watched that escalation video and yeah a lot of why the escalation in Dragonball isn't as great as in other shows is because after doing it so much there isn't any change in scale from one power level to the next. Battles from arc to arc are basically identical, and it gets especially obvious when you have rematches against Vegeta/Frieza/etc. I knew this already, but I'd never thought about how the escalation also feels bad because there isn't a goal to work towards. Goku wants to get stronger forever, and that gets tiring when it doesn't feel like progress is getting made. I guess you could argue "surpass Beerus" is the goal (And then Whis, Grand Priest, Zeno...), but they don't show progression towards that. He might as well be as high above Goku as he was during Battle of Gods, because we don't see that gap closing. Some of the blame there can be attributed to cutting Whis's line about Goku and Vegeta teaming against Beerus in Resurrection F from the Super arc.

MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#61512: Jul 23rd 2017 at 8:33:11 AM

Can The Worf Effect be applied to construction materials? If so, can we place Katchi-Katchin there?

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
XMenMutant22 The Feline Follies of Felix the Cat Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#61513: Jul 23rd 2017 at 8:48:30 AM

[up] Simple answer: No. Worf Effect deals with a strong established character(s) submitting to another character(s) (usually new) to make the latter look really strong by comparison (like Berserk!Kale tanking SSJB Goku, followed by Jiren one-shotting Berserk!Kale).

Katchi-Katchin isn't a character, it's just Made of Indestructium that's shown to be not as strong as it's claimed to be.

edited 23rd Jul '17 8:59:05 AM by XMenMutant22

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#61514: Jul 23rd 2017 at 9:02:23 AM

Well, that was certainly an interesting episode...

All I can say is: Kale > Broly. All day, every day.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#61515: Jul 23rd 2017 at 10:12:41 AM

You're not setting a very high bar with that statement.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#61516: Jul 23rd 2017 at 10:14:52 AM

I mean, I feel like Kale and Caulifla are the best parts of this arc so far, but with the caveat that the bar for that is even lower than that for comparisons between Kale and Broly.

Side-note: Has Katchin been destroyed before? I could have sworn the Z-Sword broke against it.

edited 23rd Jul '17 10:15:48 AM by unnoun

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#61517: Jul 23rd 2017 at 10:16:33 AM

I liked a lot about this episode. I liked everyone, including 18 berating Krilling (owned count +1), I liked Cabba challenging Vegeta and one-shoting some fools without breaking stride. I liked Hit being a badass, I really liked Caulifa learning from Goku and how much eagerness she has.

I liked pretty much everything until Kale transformed. Seriously screw that weird mix of Yandere tropes and Broly shout out (completely with a "walking through kamehameha" scene), everything about her is so stupid.

It's really bad how they make Goku job to some random nobody who got a rand transformation earlier that day. It makes Goku in general and Blue in particular look bad. And God knows Blue doesn't need that -it got so thoroughly de-hyped already, Goku probably uses it to open pickle jars.. And for what? Some wink to the audience about how Broly was a thing? Fucking stupid.

....

There was some talk about Goku not even making it to the final four. I say no to that. Seriously, Goku hasn't had a proper victory against the main opponent of an arc yet in Super - he lost against Beerus, got cheap-shoted when fighting Freeza and had to resort to a kill steal, his fight with Hit was inconclusive and he was not even close to dealing with Zamasu and Black on his own. At this point having him just win on his own would be the unexpected thing.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#61518: Jul 23rd 2017 at 10:18:57 AM

that weird mix of Yandere tropes and Broly shout out

I mean, Broly has basically always been tsundere/yandere for Goku, in the sense that Goku was his only motivation for anything period.

Like. Rewriting the Broly movies so he actually has a crush on Goku would not be difficult. At all. And would still arguably be less dumb than the "mad because he cried" thing.

Like. Kale is an improvement on Broly in that it's not just one incident or person from the past that gets her goat.

She doesn't get furious decades later because someone took Caulifla's attention that one time, it's because someone is taking Caulifla's attention right now.

That's significantly less dumb/more understandable.

With Broly, the dumb thing isn't just that the thing that incited him was dumb and minor, it's that it was so dumb and minor that there should be no goddamned reason for him to remember it without seeming like an overgrown obsessed baby.

edited 23rd Jul '17 10:22:51 AM by unnoun

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#61519: Jul 23rd 2017 at 10:24:08 AM

Are you seriously trying to find some logic in all of this...

In any case, the stuff with Kale is still dumb as fuck, but the episode itself was fine. really liked Caulifa vs. Goku as SSJ 2's and Cabba showing that he can be cool when he wants to be.

edited 23rd Jul '17 10:24:28 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#61520: Jul 23rd 2017 at 10:32:07 AM

I mean, with Broly. It could have even been fixed if the reason he attacked Goku in the present was because Goku was yelling and that triggered the memories.

Like, I find Masako Nozawa's adult Goku voice annoying/painful enough when she yells that I could even sympathize.

Except I could have sworn in the movie that he attacks Goku in the middle of the night, when Goku was tired and trying to be quiet and sleep, which makes it a lot more premeditated and therefore petty and dumb.

Like. Broly and Kakarot were on their backs in the basinets. Not able to see each other. And sound is easier for primates to remember than sight, especially at that age. It's why lullabyes are so much of a thing. Why we remember those so damn well. So the fact that Broly reacts to Goku's appearance but not Goku's voice is just. What.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#61521: Jul 23rd 2017 at 10:33:46 AM

...boy, that Kale sure was Broly.

One Strip! One Strip!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#61522: Jul 23rd 2017 at 10:35:36 AM

[up][up] Arguing that Broly's deal is more stupid than Kale's doesn't make Kale any less stupid herself, ya feel me :V

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#61523: Jul 23rd 2017 at 10:37:16 AM

I mean, Kale feels like she's being ignored right now, by someone she cares about a whole lots.

The fact that she can't control the anger she feels about that and it gets to that level is.

Like, a mix of sad and kind of dumb. But it still basically works, I feel. Ish.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#61524: Jul 23rd 2017 at 10:40:52 AM

...she does bring up a good point; how the fuck is Broly able to recognize Goku from his appearance, when he's literally never seen the guy before to ever have a memory of his face. Hell, he technically shouldn't recognize his voice anymore either, because by all accounts it should have changed just enough for it to be unable to activate any repressed memories, especially when he barely heard Goku talk at all before he attacked him.

edited 23rd Jul '17 10:43:16 AM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#61525: Jul 23rd 2017 at 10:42:23 AM

by all accounts it should have changed

I mean, in fairness, it is Nozawa, technically. So.

Like, part of me wants Nozawa to just bite the bullet and take some testosterone already. If only because I literally can't stand her voice when I force myself to watch subs.

...I am aware of and acknowledge that it's kinda horrible of me to want that, but. Sweet jesus I can't tolerate the Japanese dub because of it.

edited 23rd Jul '17 10:44:31 AM by unnoun


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