TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball

Go To

MyssaRei Since: Feb, 2010
#60751: Jul 12th 2017 at 11:50:31 AM

[up]

Well that, and the writing staff working on Super might not necessarily be the same people that worked with Toriyama decades ago.

And there doesn't seem to be a big continuity bible either — they have to fill in the gaps in Toriyama's outline with their own knowledge, which might NOT be as comprehensive as an obsessive fan here might have.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#60752: Jul 12th 2017 at 12:48:33 PM

[up] Except there is something that could be used as a series bible. Toriyama himself said that he wished he had it when he was writing Dragon Ball. You may have seen people quote from it numerous times. It's called the Daizenshuu.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#60753: Jul 12th 2017 at 1:21:01 PM

Granted, the writers of Daizenshuu did make up stuff that was never even vaguely hinted in the manga or anime, but's still better than no bible at all.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#60754: Jul 12th 2017 at 1:27:16 PM

Plus, didn't some of the Toei members help in making that, and don't the later editons take stuff from the anime into account as well?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#60755: Jul 12th 2017 at 1:45:30 PM

Some of it does, yeah, but I'd say at least 90% of it is accurate to the manga and that's more than Toei by themselves ever were at any point in the series.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#60756: Jul 12th 2017 at 1:51:45 PM

It depends on the edition of the Daizenshuu.

Some of the earlier Daizenshuu are manga only, but the most comprehensive one (Daizenshuu 7) mixes anime, movie and manga material and doesn't always specify where things come from.

But I think the biggest issue with the Daizenshuu as a series' bible is not accuracy, but a lack of depth. It honestly doesn't cover a lot of information beside the obvious.

Envyus Since: Jun, 2011
#60757: Jul 12th 2017 at 2:26:50 PM

@Dark Hunter

That was only stated in the Manga never in the anime. In the anime they have gone in and out of it all the time. So it's likely only a stamina drain while its on rather then the transformation itself causing the drain.

So using it in short bursts makes sense if they want to save it for the big fights towards the end.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#60758: Jul 12th 2017 at 2:30:46 PM

[up][up] Yeah but, seeing as how Toei always gets even the obvious wrong, it'd be far better than nothing.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#60759: Jul 12th 2017 at 3:08:31 PM

Oh, yeah. I thought we were talking for Toriyama's purposes.

edited 12th Jul '17 3:08:41 PM by Saiga

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#60760: Jul 12th 2017 at 3:26:10 PM

No. I just mentioned that Toriyama had mentioned that he wished the Daizenshuu had been around when he was working on Dragon Ball.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#60761: Jul 12th 2017 at 3:28:25 PM

How would that really help though if he's only making an outline for this series, and is making Toei and Toyotaro fill in the blanks?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#60762: Jul 12th 2017 at 3:51:07 PM

Okay.

Toei should be using the Daizenshuu as a series bible because they're horrible at basically everything. Toyotaro is basically okay, all things considered.

Toriyama commenting on wishing the Daizenshuu was around when he was working on the manga is a comment he made long before Super or even BoG was ever a thing. I only mentioned it to preempt anyone trying to dismiss the Daizenshuu on the basis that Toriyama didn't work on it, ergo it's worthless.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#60763: Jul 12th 2017 at 3:52:25 PM

Apparently he's working somewhat directly with Toyotaro on the manga.

But from what I recall, according to Toyotaro, the only thing Toriyama actually gives a shit about and has made him change or work more on is the jokes.

edited 12th Jul '17 3:55:46 PM by unnoun

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#60764: Jul 12th 2017 at 3:53:43 PM

Toei should be using the Daizenshuu as a series bible because they're horrible at basically everything. Toyotaro is basically okay

And there it is.

edited 12th Jul '17 3:54:26 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#60765: Jul 12th 2017 at 3:57:31 PM

I don't see why you need to single out the truth like that.

[up][up] we also learned recently that he helped with some serious scenes this arc, for instance re-drawing Zamasu's pose to get it just right.

UdtheImp from Stamford, CT (Series 2) Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
#60766: Jul 12th 2017 at 4:19:00 PM

@Possibility of Goku and/or Vegeta messing up the potential Super wish due to being BloodKnights: I imagine someone punching out either of the Saiyans and making an actual heroic wish in their place, like the combined universe one.

Better than my idea of just bringing back the fighters and their races and/or home planets and place them in all the remaining universes. U7 could definitely need a couple new civilizations after Frieza and Buu fucked up the place before. XD

Still hoping for a three-way tie between U7, U6, U11, and U10. Maybe U2 as well.

edited 12th Jul '17 4:22:50 PM by UdtheImp

DAMMIT MARK, STOP HITTING HELPY!!
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#60767: Jul 12th 2017 at 4:19:59 PM

Doesn't the manga also have problems with it too, like how Black went from having an actual personality in the anime to basically being Xicor 2.0 in the manga?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
UdtheImp from Stamford, CT (Series 2) Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
#60768: Jul 12th 2017 at 4:23:10 PM

[up]Who's Xicor?

DAMMIT MARK, STOP HITTING HELPY!!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#60769: Jul 12th 2017 at 4:24:40 PM

[up] Main villain of Toyotaro's fan-comic/doujin.

An OC character basically.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#60770: Jul 12th 2017 at 4:29:27 PM

I definitely preferred anime Black to manga Black.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#60771: Jul 12th 2017 at 4:31:41 PM

Also didn't help that Black didn't actually have a connection to Goku at all, since Zamasu never actually met Goku in the manga; he just heard about him from Shin and Kibito, found out more from the GodTube video of his fight with Hit, along with the Super Dragon Balls, and just came up with the insane idea of switching bodies with him after asking Zuno about it, cause why the Hell not right?

edited 12th Jul '17 4:33:16 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#60772: Jul 12th 2017 at 4:39:17 PM

I don't see why you need to single out the truth like that.

Because it's actually nice when someone just goes "Toei sucks," rather than blithely assuming anything good in Super was somehow done by Toriyama and anything bad had to be Toei's fault.

And because it's not true by any stretch of the imagination. Not when the Super Kaioken Blue scene, and the scene of Vegito impaling Zamasu with the Spirit Sword exists in the anime and doesn't in the manga.

edited 12th Jul '17 4:43:59 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#60773: Jul 12th 2017 at 4:45:09 PM

"Universe 7 has been spared destruction. What do you wish for, winning universe?"

"For all of the destroyed fighters and planets to be brought back as a part of our exempt from destruction universe."

Sounds like something that could happen.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#60774: Jul 12th 2017 at 4:50:34 PM

Actually now that I think about this would explain why the universe is so small.

They planned it so it can be filled with the worlds & fighters of other universes.

This might be the way to bring back surprise to the universe as Frieza, Beerus & Buu's actions guaranteed there's no other immense threat to challenge the Z-Fighters.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#60775: Jul 12th 2017 at 4:50:37 PM

[up][up][up] ah yes, because endless throwbacks to the past and pale imitations are so great

Anyway, Black not having a connection to Goku is missed but makes a lot more sense with how the time travel works in the series. Goku and Zamasu only met in the anime due to Black. It's good the manga shows how Zamasu can become Black ''without'" a grandfather paradox.

It'd be better (for both) if Goku and Zamasu had a meeting before Black showed up so they could have a deeper animosity without contradicting anything.

edited 12th Jul '17 4:51:10 PM by Saiga


Total posts: 130,800
Top