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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#60476: Jul 6th 2017 at 4:38:45 PM

It's human nature to go for the most visible target of your displeasure, regardless of how little sense it makes.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#60477: Jul 6th 2017 at 4:41:44 PM

True. That and people not thinking it's always been present, and that in Dragon Ball before Z tactics and smarts often beat out pure power.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#60478: Jul 6th 2017 at 4:44:13 PM

Goku could outsmart people, but most of the time, he just powered up till he was too strong to fight.

You couldn't outsmart him either (with the exception of the first encounter with Pilaf where he did just that) because he had a bad habit of being Too Dumb to Fool or so strong whatever sneak attack you tried just failed.

And as Devilman showed, even having a guaranteed One-Hit Kill didn't help.

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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#60479: Jul 6th 2017 at 4:45:03 PM

I mean, in the beginning Goku was simply a dozen Battle Points or so higher than all the humans in terms of power level, up until he was maybe a hundred points above them by the time of the Piccolo Jr. fight and a couple hundred for the Raditz fight. Then the gap went up to a couple thousand points, then a few thousand points, then several thousand points...then a few million...then several million....then finally several billion to several trillion points higher than everyone else, and that's not even including the Kaioken or Super Saiyan forms that just make that divide even larger.

edited 6th Jul '17 4:46:03 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#60480: Jul 6th 2017 at 4:45:51 PM

I mean, it's not like clever tricks or tactics weren't ever used, but the complaint usually seems to be phrased as if people who were clearly overall weaker than their opponents were often able to beat them by outsmarting them. To my knowledge, that just wasn't the case.

edited 6th Jul '17 4:54:38 PM by LSBK

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#60481: Jul 6th 2017 at 4:51:32 PM

As far as I can recall, the only time that's ever kinda sorta been the case is the Vegeta fight but that was just a constant string of miracles more than anything else. Vegeta's rematch with Zarbon might also be an example but we don't have any proof of it.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#60482: Jul 6th 2017 at 4:52:47 PM

[up][up]Indeed. In fact, anytime someone tried to use clever tactics to get around a superior opponent, it often failed...unless you were a villain.

Then it was more likely to succeed. Recall Ginyu swapping bodies with Goku (though that worked in Goku's favour later) and Cell consistently evading Piccolo until he'd powered up enough to mop the floor with him.

So tactics were only relevant for keeping the plot going.

edited 6th Jul '17 4:53:18 PM by HandsomeRob

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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#60483: Jul 6th 2017 at 4:54:15 PM

I think Goku was actually supposed to be somewhat stronger than Jackie Chun when they fought, and that it was merely his centuries of experience that kept him in the game for so long, though the fact he never tried going Max Power against Goku, even the 50% version, might have been a factor in that case.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#60484: Jul 6th 2017 at 4:57:30 PM

Of course not, Karrot would've been stomped by the disguised turtle-hermit.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#60485: Jul 6th 2017 at 4:58:35 PM

He wasted most of his max power on destroying the moon.

Roshi had a lot of techniques that would have put Goku down. There was the hypnosis that put the kid to sleep and would have won him the fight then and there if not for Bulma yelling that there was food around and screwing things up.

And then there was the Thunder shock Surprise...shit, that guy had the devils luck at times.

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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#60486: Jul 6th 2017 at 5:01:17 PM

Also, I still find it weird how Tien wanted to be as great of an assassin as Taopaipai, despite the fact that he spent the last battle of his introductory tournament matching up to a guy who had, in the previous arc, wiped the floor with Tao's face in their second fight.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#60487: Jul 6th 2017 at 5:06:55 PM

He didn't know he was already stronger...

He didn't have any instant kill moves...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#60488: Jul 6th 2017 at 5:07:27 PM

Just because he was a stronger fighter doesn't mean he was as good an assassin.

Plus, Tien himself didn't realize he'd surpassed Tao Pai Pai until he faced the even stronger Cyborg Pai Pai, so it's possible he wasn't aware that he'd left his old teacher in the dust 6 years earlier.

Edit: Murasaki'ed.

edited 6th Jul '17 5:07:50 PM by HandsomeRob

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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#60489: Jul 6th 2017 at 5:07:40 PM

The Dodonpa is basically Frieza's Death Beam though...

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#60490: Jul 6th 2017 at 5:08:51 PM

Yeah, they hype Tao up a lot in that arc despite Goku and Ten being waaaaaaaaaaaay beyond him at that point.

The level of tactics/strategy used remains pretty level throughout the series. It's rarely completely absent, but never so prevalent to be the main factor in fights.

Which is honestly how it should be when you're dealing with superpowers. The most skilled RL martial artist is fucked again a tank - skill alone can only take you so far. You need to be strong enough to actually use it.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#60491: Jul 6th 2017 at 5:11:59 PM

Make the tank useless, alright.

That's not what strength + skill should do.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#60492: Jul 6th 2017 at 5:14:02 PM

It's human nature to go for the most visible target of your displeasure, regardless of how little sense it makes.

Maybe this explains why most of my contempt for the series lies mostly on Goku's lap. Goku is just irritating in general compared to his previous appearances. So anyone wants to watch Funi dub where Goku has been stripped of his personality and just became Captain America?

"Mai waifu."
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#60493: Jul 6th 2017 at 6:56:59 PM

What even relevance power levels have these days?

Power Levels are gone numerically, but the idea behind them remains. Powering up is the best way to win, especially if you have a gorrillian transformations that keep you relevant or God ki.

If you don't, sucks to be you.

MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#60494: Jul 6th 2017 at 7:03:38 PM

Roshi outright tells Goku at the very beginning of the second arc that the stronger fighter wins in 99% of cases and the weaker one may as well not bother showing up in those cases. The fans should have known what kind of series they were in for.

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#60495: Jul 6th 2017 at 7:27:38 PM

Yeah, but special race benefits like Zenkai and Super Saiyan hadn't been introduced yet.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#60496: Jul 6th 2017 at 7:29:08 PM

Roshi can see the future.

Well, Baba can, and she didn't say anteing because no one paid her.tongue

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Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#60497: Jul 6th 2017 at 8:02:14 PM

[up][up][up] Um yeah, but Toonami broadcasted Z first. tongue

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#60498: Jul 6th 2017 at 8:30:48 PM

[up][up] why would she use her powers to predict the obvious

"Oh wow the humans will never stop being useless"

"Your fortune telling powers are amazing!"

"...I wasn't using them"

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#60499: Jul 6th 2017 at 8:40:21 PM

She predicted the obvious at the end of the DB Anime...

So why not?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#60500: Jul 6th 2017 at 9:02:40 PM

Humans have been useless for over 30 decades if you watched it from Japan, and over 15 years if you grew up on Z. You'd think people would get tired of repeating the same complaints and move on, but no...they parroting them. Maybe this is why Toei just caved, because they got tired of hearing it all of the damn time.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

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