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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#60426: Jul 6th 2017 at 1:17:33 PM

[up]

...Ok. I can jive with that.

I also agree that this conversation is boring, so I'm gonna say Zel wins and that we find something else to talk about.

One Strip! One Strip!
TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#60427: Jul 6th 2017 at 1:17:37 PM

Speaking of Gohan, if he gets a good fight, who do you guys want him to go up against? I want to see the extent of his powers now that he's back up to Buu level and all that.

A rematch with Lavenda, perhaps?

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#60428: Jul 6th 2017 at 1:18:52 PM

Tien basically held the entire world on his shoulders when he took on Semi-Pefect Cell.

As Abridged-Perfect Cell once said, everyone now waits for Goku. But there willing to hold the line at least.

edited 6th Jul '17 1:19:35 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#60429: Jul 6th 2017 at 1:21:48 PM

I like the idea of Gohan fighting either Toppo or Hit, whichever one Vegeta doesn't fight.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#60430: Jul 6th 2017 at 1:23:43 PM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#60431: Jul 6th 2017 at 1:32:01 PM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#60432: Jul 6th 2017 at 1:35:07 PM

You sure as shit sound like you're trying to silence him.[lol]

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#60433: Jul 6th 2017 at 1:37:25 PM

MOM DAD STOP FIGHTING

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#60434: Jul 6th 2017 at 1:42:55 PM

A rematch with Lavenda, perhaps?

Lavenda confronted him in the last episode, though.

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#60435: Jul 6th 2017 at 1:45:11 PM

Eh, yeah, but that was pretty brief, and they were both part of a group at the time. I want to see another one-on-one between them.

Ooh, or Gohan vs. Caulifla! Given the fact that Caulifla just recently reached Super Saiyan 2, it'd be interesting to see her go against the first Saiyan to ever achieve that. Plus, Caulifla's fiery personality kind of reminds me of the way Videl was when she and Gohan first started dating.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#60436: Jul 6th 2017 at 1:47:01 PM

MOM DAD STOP FIGHTING

We need Drunk Uncle HandsomeRob to break up the tension. tongue

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#60437: Jul 6th 2017 at 1:49:04 PM

Oh my god, you do this every time anyone disagrees with you. Stop pretending like I'm trying to shut you up. No-one is trying to silence criticism. No-one is ever trying to silence criticism. I just love the show, despite its flaws, and I feel obligated to defend it when people bash it relentlessly and falsely. And no, there was a whole thing with Krillin sparring with 18 and he barely lost. He also almost beat base Goku in a semi-serious fight, who should be somewhere near 18's level by now.

The irony burns...

But anyway, I think you're missing the point. No one has said what happens in Super, isn't true for Super. What has been argued is that what Super does is stupid for very well explained and discussed reasons.

I'll take your accusations of falsely maligning it seriously when you can actually back what you say up in a way we can't easily refute in two seconds.

edited 6th Jul '17 1:50:25 PM by LSBK

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#60438: Jul 6th 2017 at 1:54:03 PM

The answer is simple: the Humans have always been in the same general league of power as Goku

That's not been true at least since like when Goku drank Divine Water. Ever since then Goku could take on enemies that humans had no chance against even all put together. I'd call that being in a different league.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#60439: Jul 6th 2017 at 1:57:00 PM

What irony, pray tell?

On "no-one is denying the current strength of the humans".

Quoth Rob, last page:

"Also, being able to fight 18 in training in no way means he's now as strong as she is. No human can get that strong (he topped out at 75,000 I think post Namek).

It's been shown time and time again that no matter how hard the humans train, they are never anywhere near strong enough to be a factor in the battles. Their techniques are useless, and only the saiyans have both the power and skill to stand up to enemies."

Sure sounded like denying the current strength of the humans when I first made the argument. In hindsight, it can be interpreted other ways, and I may have been a bit hasty in interpreting it this way.

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#60440: Jul 6th 2017 at 2:02:30 PM

Clearly what is needed is a new movie.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#60441: Jul 6th 2017 at 2:03:43 PM

[up]I'm tryin' I'm tryin'...

edited 6th Jul '17 2:04:24 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#60442: Jul 6th 2017 at 2:03:58 PM

[up][up][up]The irony of you screaming about people trying to silence you and ignoring facts while trying to silence anyone who disagrees with you and ignoring facts that hurt your argument. Like you often do, in fact.

I don't know the context of Rob's words, but (with no disrespect to Rob) he tends to be melodramatic. I'm assuming he's talking in relation to the rest of Dragon Ball and applying it to Super. Something I think is a mistake by the way, a mistake you're also guilty off.

Even if Super is a continuation of Dragon Ball, it's not being written the same way, and the old standards don't apply. This should be obvious, Dragon Ball was written by one person, the Super anime is written by several people with a rough outlet of the plots.

If you like or don't care about the inconsistencies in Super, that's fine. We all probably have things like that. Just don't try and claim those inconsistencies have always been a part of Dragon Ball, because they haven't. While by no means perfect, Toriyama was a lot more consistent with things than people give him credit for, and certainly more so than the Super anime.

edited 6th Jul '17 2:04:56 PM by LSBK

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#60443: Jul 6th 2017 at 2:04:26 PM

That's simple. Rob is using the internal logic of the manga, because Super's internal logic, if it has any at all, is too insane to be understood.

And unless I'm mistaken, he's not saying that Kuririn won't be able to do anything, just that he shouldn't be able to by the precedent set by the manga. Which is a criticism of using him this way.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#60444: Jul 6th 2017 at 2:09:36 PM

Oh yeah, there's also another thing I missed.

I'm not saying they've kept up with him. I'm saying they've kept up with his gains. They're always the same amount weaker than him, despite Goku having more intense training than they did.

That's just demonstrably not true. Through the entire run when numerical power levels were used, we can see that every time both Goku and Krillin increased their strength the gap between them widened, going from mere 2x in Goku's favor when Raditz arrived to a whooping 40x during Freeza fight. Literally the opposite of what you claim.

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#60445: Jul 6th 2017 at 2:10:44 PM

If Super is so stupid and shitty why do you all watch/read it? I don't mean this in a don't like it go elsewhere way it is a legit question. All I ever see are the same people making the same complaints week after week and i want to know why bother? I really don't get it.

MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#60446: Jul 6th 2017 at 2:11:00 PM

I think Toriyama or someone else just really dislikes the idea of Krillin's wife being stronger than him. Even when she was, she conveniently never got into fights. Hence "get back in the kitchen" in ROF.

edited 6th Jul '17 2:11:29 PM by MonsieurThenardier

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#60447: Jul 6th 2017 at 2:13:14 PM

[up][up][up]I was going to type out a long thing about how I wasn't factoring in Power Levels, just the circumstances surrounding the characters and their actions, but I replaced it with the post where I tried to end this conversation last page.

And I was referring to the Tenkaichi Budokais there.

edited 6th Jul '17 2:14:59 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#60448: Jul 6th 2017 at 2:13:20 PM

[up][up][up]Something can have shitty writing and still be entertaining to watch. A lot of the fights themselves (when they're not skimping on the animation) are actually pretty cool, I think, and I am looking forward to the tournament for that reason, and out of genuine curiosity of how the larger problem of the universes being destroyed is going to be resolved.

But I can't just turn off my brain to things like this. If the inconsistencies don't bother your or Pushover that's fine. My issue is specifically with him claiming there either are no inconsistencies, or if there are the ones we're talking about were also present in the original manga, when it's been explained over and over why that isn't the case.

edited 6th Jul '17 2:19:02 PM by LSBK

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#60449: Jul 6th 2017 at 2:15:19 PM

I watch it specifically because it doesn't give a crap. Female Broly? Frieza coming back twice? Evil Goku? Vegetto Blue? Sure why not.

This song needs more love.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#60450: Jul 6th 2017 at 2:17:52 PM

I just hate it that some people are angry at a show for daring to make long-ignored and beloved side characters relevant again, and their anger is 100% based in semantics.


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