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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#5976: Apr 3rd 2014 at 2:22:17 PM

So basically this whole thing retcons both the Bardock special, and the explanation as to how Goku was sent to Earth during the Saiyan Saga, since this shows Goku as a kid wearing battle armor; does Toriyama even remember his own story anymore?

Also, apparently this is a thing now.

edited 3rd Apr '14 2:45:23 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#5977: Apr 3rd 2014 at 2:49:21 PM

Like I've said, Toriyama has pretty much forgotten everything. It's all a blur of bullet points for him.

My various fanfics.
alEKos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#5978: Apr 3rd 2014 at 3:13:02 PM

does it say that is Goku?could be kid Bardock (cant see the pic on my uuuh,phone.)

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#5979: Apr 3rd 2014 at 4:47:56 PM

Didn't Goku have his armor in Jaco?

Makes more sense than sending the kids in naked.

edited 3rd Apr '14 4:48:18 PM by unnoun

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#5980: Apr 3rd 2014 at 5:10:19 PM

So I've been thinking about some of the power ups, especially Super-Saiyan 3, and a thought came to me....

They never should have gone higher.

I don't mean this from a Meta perspective. I mean from an in-universe perspective.

Look at Super Saiyan 2: more powerful than regular Super-Saiyan, with an increase in speed that avoids the flaws of the Vegeta's ascended form or Trunk's ultra form which by combining the speed of the latter with the power of the former.

Then look at later forms that come across: Super Saiyan 3 uses up massive levels of power and can't be maintained for very long, even if it's incredibly powerful. Super Saiyan God requires others to lend power to you, and if they ain't around, then you is screwed.

Super Saiyan Oozaru requires you to be.... well a super saiyan while in Oozaru form, which means two transformations. That's not so bad, but consider what happens if you can't control Oozaru form. You destroy yourself. Oddly enough Super Saiyan 4's only problem.... well is that it sucks.

So Yeah, Super Saiyan 2 is the most energy efficient form, and they may be better off finding ways to increase it's effectiveness.

Unfortunately, Power Levels in DBZ don't work that way so that idea is out.

One Strip! One Strip!
alEKos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#5981: Apr 3rd 2014 at 5:15:43 PM

shame Kaioken was forgotten.could've been handy with the SS modes.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#5982: Apr 3rd 2014 at 5:58:25 PM

It was only ever used with Super Saiyan in the Undead Tournament filler.

There seemed to be an implication that using both at the same time was too much stress for his body.

Don't know how canon that is, since we seem to shit on any info from fillers.

One Strip! One Strip!
FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#5983: Apr 3rd 2014 at 6:30:52 PM

[up]X7 If it means anything, the only parts of the Bardock TV special that were actually handwaved in the manga was the fact that Bardock stood up to Frieza and Frieza destroyed Planet Vegeta. The manga doesn't really give that much information on what Goku's life was like before the head injury other than he was extremely violent and ill-tempered until he hit head.

For all we know that child wearing the saiyan amour in the space pod may very well be Kid Bardock!? Now that would be interesting.

[up][up] I'm pretty sure that if you were to use Super Saiyan and Kaioken at the same time you body would literally explode... from awesomeness. cool

edited 3rd Apr '14 6:33:11 PM by FireShadow

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#5984: Apr 3rd 2014 at 6:32:32 PM

Except for Jaco the Galactic Patrolman.

edited 3rd Apr '14 6:32:54 PM by unnoun

FireShadow (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#5985: Apr 3rd 2014 at 6:35:39 PM

[up] Oh yeah, I forgot about that... shit! I guess if Bardock gets another TV special, his background is gonna have to be majorly re-written.

This sort of shit is precisely why Dragon Ball needs a reboot. There's way too many retcons and inconsistencies that need to be addressed so that we can get one cohesive and understandable canon plot and timeline. TV special and movie can easily be re-written to fit in within one timeline and not create plot holes.

edited 3rd Apr '14 6:40:31 PM by FireShadow

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#5986: Apr 3rd 2014 at 6:49:56 PM

inconsistencies that need to be addressed so that we can get one cohesive and understandable canon

...Well I'm out. Have fun guys.

edited 3rd Apr '14 6:53:08 PM by unnoun

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#5987: Apr 3rd 2014 at 7:01:09 PM

See ya.

Tell us what the sun looks like when you have the time. We shall be here for many generations.tongue

edited 3rd Apr '14 8:10:41 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#5988: Apr 3rd 2014 at 7:51:23 PM

All this really retcons, for the manga, is the armour Bardock was wearing when Freeza killed him since he appears in a single panel wearing the same armour from the special. And it's possible that he has more than one set of armour anyway.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#5989: Apr 3rd 2014 at 7:59:34 PM

That and the fact that Goku was sent to Earth in Battle Armor and as a child, despite Grandpa Gohan finding him as a naked baby as shown in the Saiyan Saga.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#5991: Apr 3rd 2014 at 8:09:31 PM

That's only shown in the Bardock special. It sure does retcon the hell out of the Bardock special, but the only difference with the manga is that Bardock wears the special's armour in the manga and DB Minus shows him in different armour.

edited 3rd Apr '14 8:10:41 PM by Saiga

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#5992: Apr 3rd 2014 at 8:14:06 PM

[up][up]

Holy shit on that info from Jaco!

So what happened to Tights? How come Bulma never mentions having an older sister?

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#5993: Apr 3rd 2014 at 8:22:41 PM

Reporters are clearly a blight on the Briefs family name.

Or it never came up on-screen. She can mention pretty much anything offscreen though. Maybe she did. Who knows.

The series has a lot of gaps in it.

I mean, heck, based on Wrath Of The Dragon, Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!, and, elephant in the room, Battle Of Gods, you could basically put anything between the death of Kid Buu and that last world tournament where they met Uub.

Hell, if you ignore GT, (and why wouldn't you tongue) you could do a lot while Goku was training Uub.

edited 3rd Apr '14 8:23:41 PM by unnoun

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#5994: Apr 3rd 2014 at 8:25:20 PM

Toriyama actually was asked what happened to Tights, and he said it was probably best not to answer.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#5995: Apr 3rd 2014 at 8:25:32 PM

[up][up][up][up] It was also shown in the Saiyan Saga where Grandpa Gohan found Goku naked in the middle of the forest as a baby when Roshi was telling Goku about the head injury.

edited 3rd Apr '14 8:25:55 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#5996: Apr 3rd 2014 at 8:26:46 PM

Are you talking about the anime? Because I don't know about that, but I do know that it's not in the manga, which is what I was talking about. The manga never shows that meeting, only explains it in Roshi's dialogue.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#5997: Apr 3rd 2014 at 8:32:12 PM

It was in the anime, but the Bardock special came out during the televised version of the Ginyu Saga, so this came before it.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#5998: Apr 3rd 2014 at 8:35:28 PM

I don't get, going off the Z ending, why people assume training Uub meant not seeing Chichi or Goten or anyone. Ignoring GT, which basically confirms it.

...I mean, two of Goku's absences involve being dead. Yes, Dragon Balls, but I think Old Kai's thing about "the natural order" when Vegeta suggests the Dragon Balls at least indicates that it's not supposed to be that easy.

I forget, did they fix that "can only grant same wish once" thing? Because who knows what going to Namek again just to get Goku would do. Probably some sort of super Frieza or whatever.

I mean, the thing after he beat Frieza does make some sense, what with not being able to control the Super Saiyan at first. Staying in space to learn Instant Transmission is a bit harder to justify, admittedly.

KBSL Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
#5999: Apr 3rd 2014 at 8:36:14 PM

While this scene is supposed to sum up all of Vegeta's character development, isn't it kind of weird coming at a point, where GOHAN was supposed to be the best?

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#6000: Apr 3rd 2014 at 8:36:44 PM

Gohan was a little bit dead at the time. What with being unconscious on a planet that blew up and all.

And I'm not sure Vegeta was specifically referring to raw power at that point either.

edited 3rd Apr '14 8:38:15 PM by unnoun


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