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EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#59951: Jul 1st 2017 at 1:18:15 PM

bad video is bad.

like, it honestly just seems like he's complaining rather than explaining why it's bad

also the video is kiiinda boring- his voice is monotone and nothing is happening on screen.

Regardless, I do have to agree that Goku getting another transformation so soon might be a step in the wrong direction- especially since I think the characters have become too reliant on powerups than being strong themselves.

Like, to even compete in fights for Super Goku had to go SSGSS, while almost every other character that's their base strength. Super Saiyan forms should be a last resort, not the default. My hope is that they address this, but I doubt they will.

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#59952: Jul 1st 2017 at 1:22:26 PM

I mean, most other characters don't have transformations so... I'd agree that it seems like they overuse it though, probably just thinking "it's the latest thing so we have to cram it in as much as possible" without thinking about what that implies about the characters when they aren't transformed.

But Super's pretty inconsistent with the characters strength levels anyway.

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#59953: Jul 1st 2017 at 1:24:32 PM

I think what amuses me the most about these Unfortunate Implications is that Freeza (and all of his forces) were right when he called the Saiyans a low-level warrior race. The only reason they can compete with the big guns is because of transformations, and without them they're pitifully weak [lol]

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#59954: Jul 1st 2017 at 1:27:22 PM

Super Saiyan forms have always been the default for Saiyans ever since they were introduced. From the end of the Namek Saga onward, success in almost any battle came down to a new Super Saiyan form. The Androids and Semi-perfect Cell were too strong for the Saiyans without Super Saiyan 2nd Grade, Super Perfect Cell was probably too much for Gohan without Super Saiyan 2, Majin Boo in all of his forms was impossible to fight without Super Saiyan 3 unless you were Gohan or Vegetto, Beerus could only be matched by Super Saiyan God (and whatever came after that), Golden Freeza was even stronger than Super Saiyan Blue until the power drain got the better of him. Super Saiyan Blue has actually managed to go through three whole sagas without any new form in sight (baring SSJBK which is anime-only and isn't really a new transformation). That's a better showing than literally every previous form.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#59955: Jul 1st 2017 at 1:27:33 PM

Not really. Most of the Frieza's guys, including himself, were mutants and shouldn't be taken as representative of their respective races. Even then the average Frieza soldier had a power level of like a 1000-2000 something.

All the taunting always just seemed like Frieza trying to hide his fear, and his men following suit because ass-kissing/not wanting to die.

edited 1st Jul '17 1:28:22 PM by LSBK

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#59956: Jul 1st 2017 at 1:35:37 PM

I mean, you got a point. Why is it that in Super there's so many asshats who can compete not only with Super Sayians but God powered Super Sayians?

At least in Z only a handful beings could reach that level - Piccolo who was like three guys fused together, Android made with bullshit science, Cell who had Super Sayian genome, Gods, the devil king and a god killing abomination. That's it.

But in Super? What kind of training some like Toppo did that lets him be on a level that Goku can only achieve after multiplying his power hundreds or thousands of times?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#59957: Jul 1st 2017 at 1:38:36 PM

Or Jiren who is his outright superior in power & combat strength.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#59958: Jul 1st 2017 at 2:21:02 PM

[up][up]Something something Universe 7 has a trash mortal level.

edited 1st Jul '17 2:22:30 PM by Moth13

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#59959: Jul 1st 2017 at 2:52:44 PM

Eh, the entire video falls apart once it becomes clear he didn't like transformations post Buu Saga.

Which is an entirely reasonable opinion and should not be dismissed so readily.

Can't watch the video right now, but I would rather Goku not get another form unless it tries to simplify this shit. Even though GT introduced a new form, it stuck with that for its entire run. That's one thing I like about GT.

For the BOG era and Super, we got two new forms (God and Blue) but Blue mostly acted like a permanent God. While I liked 2 and 3 and was sad to see Toriyama dismiss them as unnessecary, writing them out is really good for fixing the transformation bloat. When F gave us a strong base Goku and Vegeta who transformed directly to Blue, I thought 1 Super Mode was much more workable for them. Then Universe 6 brought back Super Saiyan and I thought well that makes things less clear but Toriyama is probably sticking to his comment about 2 and 3 not appearing anymore. Then the anime brought back Kaio-ken, the manga brought back God, and with 3 forms above base it was about as convoluted as having 1 to 3 again. Aaaand then Goku starting use 2 and 3 again, and it's more of a clusterfuck than ever.

I liked the original 'branching' Super Saiyan transformations and I am glad that it didn't just stay as one form with no development. However under that model we had old forms be phased out to prevent having too many at one time, and the eventual goal was presented as moving beyond Super Saiyan entirely.

If we seriously need to get anything else, please trim the fat while doing so. Or instead of just introducing a new form, give us variations and working with the form like the God-Blue switch or Full Power Blue.

Though any new form that takes Blue off the table would be appreciated.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59960: Jul 1st 2017 at 3:15:44 PM

The video was arguing personal taste overall, is what I meant.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#59963: Jul 1st 2017 at 3:39:20 PM

Boogie Back was great, sad that they are replacing it already.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#59964: Jul 1st 2017 at 3:48:13 PM

I don't mind Super Saiyan having advanced and branching forms, but there comes a point when enough is enough.

Whenever there was a new form, it was treated as a new threshold. Goku and Gohan both broke the mold for new Super Saiyan forms when they transformed.

God was also treated this way, but was quickly phased out for Blue outside of the manga. Blue just kind of happened and that was it. Now to its credit, they kept it exclusive to Goku and Vegeta rather than distributing it among every Saiyan, which was fine.

Kaioken Blue isn't really a transformation, so I don't count it. But now Goku is getting another new form and I'm asking myself "What could possibly justify a new form now?"

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#59965: Jul 1st 2017 at 3:49:49 PM

[up]The fat of the universe and them not being able to win without it? Or is your question about why this is only popping up now and the trigger for it?

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#59966: Jul 1st 2017 at 3:55:59 PM

The latter. Transformations feel less special to me because there's no emotional investment on it.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#59967: Jul 1st 2017 at 4:05:48 PM

Well, for this one, assuming there even is one, it'll probably be because of that fate of the universe thing. Really, that's probably going to be the meta-reasoning and in-story catalyst.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#59968: Jul 1st 2017 at 4:09:43 PM

Hopefully the whole thing is done well with the animators brining their absolute A-Game.

The music better be stellar too.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#59969: Jul 1st 2017 at 4:14:38 PM

To be fair, Goku only really used 2 and 3 against Trunks after BOG, and even then that was mostly a test to see how far Trunks had come and to show him that he can still go even higher with Super Saiyan 3. Plus, technically Goku only went 2 in response to Trunks going 2 himself. Though, he does use 2 in the anime to fight Black and Zamasu, in fights that weren't in the manga at all.

The new form also seems to be more like a powered-up base state based on the poster (which ironically makes it look like Goku is using Luffy's Gear Second based on the steam effect and the red tint on parts of his body), so it seems like, at least in the anime, Goku might be phasing out Super Saiyan transformations entirely.

edited 1st Jul '17 4:15:31 PM by Ssj3Gojira

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Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#59970: Jul 1st 2017 at 4:33:21 PM

I'm waiting for Jiren the Gray to become Jiren the White.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#59971: Jul 1st 2017 at 4:33:46 PM

I'm tired of new forms, honestly. Super Saiyan 3 did nothing, Super Saiyan God was barely used, Super Saiyan Blue was alright but came out of nowhere, Super Saiyan Rage also came out of nowhere and wasn't even explained.

Just use what's already established and have the characters become more skilled at combat. Fighting styles, techniques, something.

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#59972: Jul 1st 2017 at 4:39:44 PM

I was actually having a conversation with my friend about transformation (He asked me if he thinks SSJ 4 is a different type of transformation, and we mocked how SSJ 5 is 4 plus the horrible looking 3).

I agree, i'm not fond of transformations that much unless they help the story (Which is why 3 sucks, Rage didn't explain shit, Blue is OK, and 4 is awesome along 2 and 1)

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#59973: Jul 1st 2017 at 5:32:02 PM

The scene of Goku beating up Bergamot in the OP is actually in next week's episode.

Universe 9 was actually competent and managed to beat up plenty of people. The first person disqualified was even taken out by U9.

edited 1st Jul '17 5:36:51 PM by Hobgoblin

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#59974: Jul 1st 2017 at 6:13:20 PM

I feel like it's been more than long enough without a new Super Saiyan form for Goku, and we're due one by now. Super Saiyan Blue was introduced three arcs ago, and Super Saiyan Blue Kaio-Ken, which barely counts as a new form anyways, was introduced two arcs ago.

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#59975: Jul 1st 2017 at 6:35:07 PM

While I don't necessarily agree a new form is necessary, I will agree that Blue has been overused so much at this point that I can understand why people want something new.


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