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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#58801: Jun 14th 2017 at 9:03:50 AM

Oh please. Alternate universe Gokus who aren't evil or dead? Pull the other one.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#58802: Jun 14th 2017 at 9:13:30 AM

[up]

...huh. He does tend to bite in in alt universes quite often doesn't he?

And everyone else tends to die not long after.

One Strip! One Strip!
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#58803: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:05:19 AM

I mean, if power levels actually mattered to Arc, then Sol would only be capable of being hurt by like two or three people; say what you will about the fight, but the Sol vs Ragna Death Battle shows just how overpowered Sol is compared to everyone else.

When you can casually vaporize monsters the size and volume of Mt. Everest by releasing only a fraction of your true power, you're kind of in a tier of your own.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#58804: Jun 14th 2017 at 10:16:22 AM

When your official power level is Saitama, everyone only needs one punch.tongue

One Strip! One Strip!
UdtheImp from Stamford, CT (Series 2) Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
#58805: Jun 14th 2017 at 12:10:59 PM

[up]Is he serious or not? Because there's plenty of people out there in fictionland who can easily withstand a couple of punches from Saitama when he's not serious. Its when he gets serious is when Gods, Eldritch Abominations, and even Reality Warpers start soiling their underwear.

edited 14th Jun '17 12:11:36 PM by UdtheImp

DAMMIT MARK, STOP HITTING HELPY!!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#58806: Jun 14th 2017 at 12:15:30 PM

About the fact we have only seen 20% of the characters for the game: "This isn't even my final form." tongue

Also about that Death Battle where Android 18 faces off against Carol Danvers AKA Captain Marvel:

18 won which I approve cause I dislike Carol a lot.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#58807: Jun 14th 2017 at 1:11:38 PM

Wiz and Boomstick's "analyzing their weapons, armor, and skills" is cherry-picking bullshit as usual, though. They used the fact that 18 has Super Drain in Xenoverse 2 as proof that 18 can actually drain energy.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#58808: Jun 14th 2017 at 1:13:59 PM

To be fair, it sounds like she would have won even without that.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#58809: Jun 14th 2017 at 1:22:44 PM

Oh, of course. 18's feats eclipsed Carol's, even with Death Battle's traditional DBZ lowballing. It's just dumb that they felt the need to include that at all, just to artificially create another connection between the two beyond: "blonde women with Flying Brick powers and energy manipulation".

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#58810: Jun 14th 2017 at 1:48:10 PM

The reactions to Death Battle are always more interesting than the battles themselves. This was one of the rare occasions where I could actually find myself going "they got that wrong." and it was very annoying. I can only image how it is for people who usually have a better understanding of the characters than me.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#58811: Jun 14th 2017 at 1:58:42 PM

Hey at least the person I wanted to win won. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#58812: Jun 14th 2017 at 3:56:05 PM

Death Battle is pretty dumb about taking feats out of context, cherry-picking them from dubiously-canon sources, or just flat-out deliberately misinterpreting them. Like the time they used the ending cutscene of Kirby Triple Deluxe as "proof" that Kirby can survive a planetary explosion unscathed. I'll sometimes watch the actual fights just for entertainment but I can't stand the warped mathematics that precede them.

Regarding the video games, I have no problem with Yamcha being able to beat up Beerus, because it'd be a shitty game otherwise, but I'm never sure how to best implement transformations; like, the Super Saiyan forms and Frieza's transformations are explicitly more powerful than the base state with the only downside being a stamina drain. Cell's transformations make him objectively superior in every regard, without any downsides. Most of the movie villains have some kind of transformation once they're done sandbagging.

If you make each transformation make the fighter more powerful, it's no longer a balanced game; if Yamcha can fight evenly with first form Frieza, then Golden Frieza should steamroll him, breaking the game balance. If Yamcha can fight evenly with Golden Frieza, then Yamcha should steamroll first form Frieza, also breaking the game balance. The only way the game can maintain balance is if first form Frieza is equal to Golden Frieza, which is rather silly.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#58813: Jun 14th 2017 at 4:22:25 PM

In the Budokai games, Transformations increased Ki Drain and gave marginal stat boosts. That's the best way to do it if you're really worried about balance.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#58814: Jun 14th 2017 at 5:33:43 PM

[up][up]Which is my point.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#58815: Jun 14th 2017 at 5:35:49 PM

Then you're basically making a game where there's no reason to play as anyone but Whis or Vados because everyone else is shit-tier.

My various fanfics.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#58816: Jun 14th 2017 at 5:39:44 PM

Indeed again this is a ridiculous topic to argue about.

Its just asinine, its a game built for the enjoyment of people so who cares if it doesn't make sense?

edited 14th Jun '17 5:40:06 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#58817: Jun 14th 2017 at 5:40:07 PM

I'll never forgive them for Goku vs. Superman II.

Not even angry at the conclusion itself, but how they got to that conclusion. Really, they pushed that video out too soon. They should've waited until Super Saiyan Blue Goku had any actual feats, before deciding that "lol Superman is infinite strength xD" and disregarding Goku completely.

Also, Toph vs Gaara was hilariously stupid.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#58818: Jun 14th 2017 at 5:46:16 PM

Going from the gameplay shown, Golden Frieza is a temporary transformation that makes Frieza more powerful but eventually wears off, like Sol Badguy's Dragon Install from Guilty Gear. Goku's Super Saiyan 3 is used as an attack, he transforms, does the super, and transforms back after the damage is done.

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#58819: Jun 14th 2017 at 5:53:22 PM

Toph vs Gaara was fine.

But yeah, Death Battle definitely has issues with citing feats from dubiously canon (or even non-canon) sources or taking a comedic scene at face value, arbitrarily choosing a number that 'seemed right', and using it as justification for the victory even though it vastly eclipsed the rest of the character's shown feats (cough cough Amy vs Ramona and i'm sure a number of other fights).

Death Battle also has issues with just ignoring feats, abilities, or weapons for characters (be it because they're unfamiliar with the source material or whatever reasoning). Notably Dante vs Bayonetta and, again, Amy vs Ramona.

But I think by far their worst offense was Bowser vs Ganondorf where they not only abused the No Limits Fallacy to no end, but also more-or-less made up an ability for Ganondorf because of one line from OOT that wasn't 100% clear in what it meant.

Still, in Android 18 vs Captain Marvel's case it isn't THAT bad that they included the energy drain since it was a stomp in Android 18's favor anyway. If it had been the tipping point, that would've been a different story.


Now, on topic, it seems like the transformations will be more-or-less temporary power boosts or single-move hits, based on what [up] said.

they could also disregard scale completely and i'd be cool with that too

edited 14th Jun '17 5:54:51 PM by EpicBleye

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#58820: Jun 14th 2017 at 5:56:07 PM

No I think Toph vs. Gaara is problematic.

I don't think Toph can control gold, at least she can't control it better than Gaara.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#58821: Jun 14th 2017 at 5:59:32 PM

[up]Regardless of whether or not she can control gold, there's no way she wouldn't be able to control gaara's sand armor. which is what decided the victory in the end.

but this is way off-topic and is better reserved for the actual death battle thread

edited 14th Jun '17 5:59:50 PM by EpicBleye

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#58822: Jun 14th 2017 at 6:02:34 PM

I don't know, Toph was pretty good at sandbending by the end of the series. The question of whether she could wrestle control away from Gaara is another matter, but I found it weird how they didn't have her turn his own sand against him more in that fight.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#58823: Jun 14th 2017 at 6:21:36 PM

I mean, it's not like it should have helped her; if we're taking Gaara at his best, then he would have access to Wind Style jutsu, which we saw him use both in his big fight against Naruto and to enhance his sand to be able to protect his village from what were essentially meteorites, his Magnet Style abilities shown in Gaara Hiden which he uses to manipulate a high density sparkling metallic sand, which was something that they flat-out said Toph isn't capable of Metalbending, and Taijutsu skills on par with Naruto, Sasuke, and Darui, as stated in both the Boruto Movie novelization and backed up by the fact he was okay with using pure Taijutsu against Momoshiki.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#58824: Jun 14th 2017 at 6:23:57 PM

In the Budokai games, Transformations increased Ki Drain and gave marginal stat boosts. That's the best way to do it if you're really worried about balance.
And in another Arc game, Persona 4 Arena Ultiamax those without transformations instead got a different ability a Combo Break. In DB land it would be an after image.

edited 14th Jun '17 6:24:10 PM by Memers

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#58825: Jun 14th 2017 at 6:24:06 PM

Was the Magnet Style and Wind Style thing he already knew at that point? I'm pretty sure at least the former wasn't part of his powerset at the time of the battle.


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