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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#58776: Jun 14th 2017 at 5:06:33 AM

MOBA are an entirely different genre. And you can deliberately have different tiers without being unbalanced, which would work better with a larger roster.

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#58777: Jun 14th 2017 at 5:11:28 AM

the Power Level gaps between characters are too wide to justify balancing them all.

Meh. I don't think Dragon Ball is special in that regard...plenty of fighting games have different tiers of characters (from a lore perspective) fighting in a balanced meta. And the games don't suffer for it.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#58778: Jun 14th 2017 at 5:12:05 AM

Not to the extent would be needed for Dragonball and not if there are said fans of that character who want fair treatment for their fav.

Tier is fighting games are not that varied unless there is a Tier Induced Scrappy or Gamebreaker in the bunch.

edited 14th Jun '17 5:16:13 AM by Memers

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#58779: Jun 14th 2017 at 5:15:46 AM

We've already got games with decent rosters (not Spike level), overall balanced gameplay and mechanical depth. So yes it is possible, though there could be improvements in all of those regards and we've yet to see something on a full-on competitive level.

Even with the difference in in-game stats, Yamcha is actually a high tiered character in infinite world for his strings.

People wanted fair treatment of their fav are no different from them wanting it in the series itself - their idea of 'fair' is usually anything but that, they want preferential treatment of their fav and they aren't owed that by any stretch of imagination.

Most fighting games don't have huge tiers but that's because they don't have huge rosters to begin with. If you had a small roster traditional fighter and a large roster game, there'd be functionally no difference between the two competitively if the number of upper tiered characters in the larger game rivaled the roster of the smaller game. Using Budokai 3 as an example, the top tiers have ~14 characters in it, which is a diverse meta. If you include the mid tier characters you've got ~26 characters, similar to the entire roster of a lot of fighters. And Budokai 3 did not have an alarming difference between its mid and upper tier characters.

edited 14th Jun '17 5:26:00 AM by Saiga

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#58780: Jun 14th 2017 at 5:22:57 AM

That is different gameplay styles and move sets though, it's not the same. If they followed Dragonball all those hits Yamaha would have been NoSelled by Freeza. As well as Freeza would be superior by light years in every single category.

They will give every character their own move sets and strengths and weaknesses however they will be balanced and stronger canon characters will still be brought down to a somewhat even playing field.

Tien might hit stronger than Freeza but be a little slower and stuff like that.

edited 14th Jun '17 5:25:45 AM by Memers

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#58781: Jun 14th 2017 at 5:25:19 AM

You guys sound like you've never played a Marvel versus Capcom game before. Power Creep, Power Seep isn't a bad trope by any means in fighting games, so I really don't see this as a steep hill to climb over.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#58782: Jun 14th 2017 at 5:26:57 AM

Yeah the Power Creep, Power Seep is a complete non-issue. We have absolutely no need to try and accurately add how much one character outclasses another into the game.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#58783: Jun 14th 2017 at 5:29:05 AM

Considering in Marvel vs. Capcom you can have Hakweye beat Thanos & in Injustice Harely Quinn beat Darkseid, yeah this is a completly pointless & ridiculous topic to argue about.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#58784: Jun 14th 2017 at 5:32:29 AM

It's Arc, they make characters very balanced occasionally to a fault. To the point that their tier lists tend to be large clumps with 1 or 2 standouts at either end. Advantages are on a character by character basis.

Go play Final Bout if you want that kind of unbalance.

edited 14th Jun '17 5:46:15 AM by Memers

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#58785: Jun 14th 2017 at 5:34:06 AM

[up][up] Yeah, this. I'm pretty sure the power gap between Cell and Yamcha is smaller than the power gap between Galactus and Phoenix Wright.

edited 14th Jun '17 5:34:19 AM by TyeDyeWildebeest

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#58786: Jun 14th 2017 at 5:38:09 AM

No one is more powerful than the law.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#58788: Jun 14th 2017 at 6:16:30 AM

[up] Ace Attorney Investigations proved this to not be the case twice. Cases 1-4 and 1-5 also show this. And 2-4.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#58789: Jun 14th 2017 at 7:08:15 AM

Reminder that DBFZ is currently 20% done.

20% at 6 characters could mean that we might be seeing a 25-30 character roster.

Also, V-Jump is going to reveal a couple of new characters soon, so get ready!

edited 14th Jun '17 7:08:46 AM by Rinsankajugin

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#58790: Jun 14th 2017 at 7:24:23 AM

I dont get how anyone csn complain how DBZ games don't accurately portray power levels. Because it just means half the cast would be outclassed by Goku and Vegeta.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#58791: Jun 14th 2017 at 7:37:25 AM

Some people get a bit overboard with their opinions and headcanons.

edited 14th Jun '17 7:38:08 AM by Eriorguez

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#58792: Jun 14th 2017 at 7:59:03 AM

People wanted fair treatment of their fav are no different from them wanting it in the series itself - their idea of 'fair' is usually anything but that, they want preferential treatment of their fav and they aren't owed that by any stretch of imagination.

Not me. I'm completely fair about it, and would never want to see the characters I like completely dominate everyone.

...what?

Getting serious, the beauty of a fighting game based on a series like Dragonball, is that you can completely ignore how quite a few characters are hopelessly outmatched, and instead beat the shit out of Frieza, Cell, and Majin Buu with someone like Chi-chi or Videl (if either of them are even playable).

It would be no fun if they went completely realistic about how the characters really stack up to each other. Sure, some people would get a laugh out of any fight when using Yamcha ending with him taken out instantly (and a large number of people already do, hence the Saibaman instant kill in the original Budokai), but then it wouldn't really be fun to play if only Goku, Vegeta and a few others are viable.

One Strip! One Strip!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#58793: Jun 14th 2017 at 8:02:08 AM

I want Mr. Satan to be in FighterZ so that way I can defeat Beerus with him.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#58794: Jun 14th 2017 at 8:03:31 AM

See.

Zelenal gets it.

You do that man. You make Mr. Satan the hero we all know he is.

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#58795: Jun 14th 2017 at 8:32:11 AM

That problem is that with transformations, you have like four variants of all the main Z villains and more than five variants of Goku, and base Goku being on-par with Super Saiyan Blue Kaio-Ken Goku shatters the suspension of disbelief so hard that you can cut yourself on the shards.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#58796: Jun 14th 2017 at 8:33:20 AM

And Mr. Satan being able to defeat Super Boo without taking any damage doesn't?

edited 14th Jun '17 8:33:37 AM by Zelenal

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#58797: Jun 14th 2017 at 8:34:09 AM

It's a video game

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#58798: Jun 14th 2017 at 8:36:38 AM

Yeah this has never been a problem in any Dragon Ball game before. I'm confused at all the debate surrounding it now, especially when we keep getting modern Dragon Ball games without anyone making a ruckus about it . Xenoverse 2 isn't even a year old for example, and exactly none of you ever talked about power level issues while playing it.

edited 14th Jun '17 8:38:21 AM by VeryMelon

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#58799: Jun 14th 2017 at 8:38:28 AM

[up][up][up]At least there you can headcanon that Satan trained for a couple months and made up the difference. Base Goku vs SSBKK Goku is a character fighting the same character, except the second one should be like 10,000 times, or at least 5 noticeable tiers, more powerful.

edited 14th Jun '17 8:42:24 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#58800: Jun 14th 2017 at 8:54:40 AM

Just headcanon that base Goku is from an alternate universe where he trained by fighting poachers for four months.


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