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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#58751: Jun 13th 2017 at 8:19:29 AM

Custom special attacks would solves all roster issues in Dragon Ball games, but I'm not sure Ark System Works is the type to do that.

Nap1100 Since: Mar, 2012
#58752: Jun 13th 2017 at 8:26:48 AM

Again, it's not a memory issue, it's a time and resource issue. For the game to look as good as it does the artists have to devote a ton of time to making the cel-shading and animation look like what you'd expect from a 2D show or fighting game. It takes months to be able to make a full character to the standard that they want.

edited 13th Jun '17 8:27:22 AM by Nap1100

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#58753: Jun 13th 2017 at 8:27:11 AM

Depends, but this game is looking more like a traditional fighting game, so I don't think they're gonna focus much on custom movesets.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#58754: Jun 13th 2017 at 9:45:45 AM

Well if Arc bases the games mechanics around Persona 4 Arena Ultimax they will probably have different special abilities like a super mode or having the ability to use a combo breaker depending on the setup you go with as maybe around half the move set be different depending on the form.

Most characters in it had 2 to 3 forms akin to that.

  • Original form (had the combo breaker),
  • their shadow (had the super mode)
  • and if their Persona is disabled in combat or just plain chose to not use one (half their moves changed or were disabled).

edited 13th Jun '17 9:48:13 AM by Memers

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#58755: Jun 13th 2017 at 10:13:24 AM

@Shlugo: Can you refrain from the r word too?

Nap1100 Since: Mar, 2012
#58756: Jun 13th 2017 at 11:15:45 AM

[up][up]Probably not happening. Sparking, the burst of this game, is both the combo breaker and the super mode, giving regenerating red health for a time and potentially maybe other bonuses(?). Besides, if the game is using the Xrd engine that probably means Team Red is doing it, not Team Blue who did Persona.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#58757: Jun 13th 2017 at 12:08:39 PM

@Repeats in Fighters: the previous Arcsys games strictly had transformations all as separate characters. In this game, we see Freeza transform into Golden Freeza as a move performable in gameplay, so it's not likely that we'll be seeing duplicates in the form of slightly different transformations.

Whether we'll be seeing era specific repeats is another matter (like Goku vs Dragonball Goku, or Gohan vs Adult Gohan) is another matter, but I doubt we'll get anywhere near as many as previous.

That said, I don't expect too much from the range of characters in this one. Arcsys may be doing things slightly differently, but they do still have tendencies when it comes to this sort of thing.

MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#58758: Jun 13th 2017 at 12:16:06 PM

I don't mind repeat characters, just so long as it's not like Final Bout, where Goku made up one-third of the entire roster.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#58759: Jun 13th 2017 at 12:57:06 PM

For that the happen the roster would have to be lackluster to begin with. Much like Final Bout's.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#58760: Jun 13th 2017 at 1:04:30 PM

Since it's a 3v3 fighter, we're probably going to have a lot of characters - especially if we're eventually getting DLC.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#58761: Jun 13th 2017 at 1:36:03 PM

@Shlugo the big issue is having several options restricted by being split over different characters, like not being able to have Light Grenade and Makankosappo on Piccolo or Kaio-ken and Super Saiyan 2 on Goku, etc.

It's also pretty sloppy, but that's a minor issue.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#58762: Jun 13th 2017 at 2:38:14 PM

Raging Blast 1/2 are fine. They're not great, but neither are the Tenkaichi series.

I have to assume you never actually play fights with characters unless they fought against each other in canon, for accuracy.

No it isn't. Not if you actually understood what the problem with splitting characters over multiple slots was in the first place.

My responses to these are mostly hostile.

not being able to have Light Grenade and Makankosappo on Piccolo or Kaio-ken and Super Saiyan 2 on Goku, etc.

...just play "Cell Saga Piccolo" and "Buu Saga" Goku.

Don't want Goku to use the Meteor Combination? Don't push Triangle, Up and L2 at the same time.

Most combinations in T3 were some variation of L2, Face Button, Directional Button. Easier than you'd think.

Though I agree that designing a system where you can just switch around moves and transformations on a single character slot also sounds retardedly easy.

I mean you can, but I don't think it was an issue for Tenkaichi 3. The roster didn't get any smaller. The outfits weren't any less disappointing. Budokai already did this, yes., because Budokai had the best customization and the later games pre-Xenoverse only made it worse with things like Z-Points and Super Armor Rage Modes.

But it was kind of annoying in Budokai because each form relied on your Ki gauge being at a certain level. The Goku v Frieza and Gohan v Cell fights were particularly annoying because they'd knock you out of the form before you could recharge.

Being "locked" into Super Saiyan 2 was a boon for me. Plus you could always press R3 if you wanted to power back down to Super Saiyan for some reason.

edited 13th Jun '17 7:21:04 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#58763: Jun 13th 2017 at 3:15:20 PM

[up][up]Can't you just play the version of the character that has those moves? Though by now, I guess we can put all those options under a single character slot.

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#58764: Jun 13th 2017 at 6:21:40 PM

For the record, Budokai 3's set-up for customization was my favorite. Transformations weren't as sacrificial as in the first Budokai and any character could use any of their moves if you just unlocked them first.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#58765: Jun 13th 2017 at 7:40:57 PM

[up][up] both of those examples were characters that don't exist in BT 3. Because of the division.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#58766: Jun 13th 2017 at 7:57:57 PM

Um, your memory is horrible then, because there were two versions of Piccolo in Budokai Tenkaichi 3, and both of them had access to the Makankōsappō. Early Z Piccolo had it as his Ultimate while Late Z Piccolo had it as a Super.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#58767: Jun 14th 2017 at 1:48:18 AM

I'll admit that I was wrong about that particular example, but my memory is awful for not remembering it from a game I haven't played in years with a roster that size? Just swap Makankosappo for Explosive Demon Wave then, they were hypotheticals.

Splitting the roster means you won't be able to have certain combinations available. For no benefit. Saying "well just use the version of the character that has SOME of the things you want" doesn't solve anything.

Most combinations in T3 were some variation of L2, Face Button, Directional Button. Easier than you'd think.

Which is exactly my point? The combinations are easy to learn, and use, so I am not seeing why it is so hard to avoid using moves you didn't want to.

My responses to these are mostly hostile.

Well, I guess you don't have much of an argument then.

edited 14th Jun '17 1:48:33 AM by Saiga

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#58768: Jun 14th 2017 at 2:09:01 AM

I've always thought that Dragon Ball in the form of a balanced fighting game is a terrible idea, and people should just stop trying. Transformations are too integral to the soul of the franchise and the Power Level gaps between characters are too wide to justify balancing them all.

I would be happy if there were never any more Dragon Ball fighting games ever made, and they turned their attentions towards any other genres of game.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#58769: Jun 14th 2017 at 2:17:52 AM

Beat-em up...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#58770: Jun 14th 2017 at 2:28:31 AM

Improve upon the Xenoverse games?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#58771: Jun 14th 2017 at 2:41:29 AM

Dragon Ball Bingo!

MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#58772: Jun 14th 2017 at 2:47:48 AM

[up][up][up][up]the Power Level gaps between characters are too wide to justify balancing them all.

I fail to see how that's a problem, given that Gameplay and Story Segregation is a thing that exists. Of course, I'm the kind of guy who sees nothing wrong with a fighting game where, say, Batman can get into a fistfight with Superman.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#58773: Jun 14th 2017 at 2:52:37 AM

Asymmetrical balance. You can have balanced gameplay and transformations/different power levels among characters. I don't think there's any genre of game that could accurately portray the power disparity and still be a fun game, it's enough as long as you can notice the difference and you can still have a balanced game when you have noticeable differences.

I think games like Guilty Gear don't have such differences, but that's fine too.

I don't want to see them go as far as Super Dragon Ball Z, but I think Arc Sys can do a good job creating a competitive fighter that still has the look and feel of Dragon Ball.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#58774: Jun 14th 2017 at 4:21:19 AM

Yeah, you can't have a perfect simulation of how Dragon Ball fights work, without making it so some character are completely useless against others, to the point of not even being able to hurt them. Not game design a lot of people would find fun.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#58775: Jun 14th 2017 at 5:03:10 AM

Asymmetrical Balance like that is damn near impossible with large casts, MOB As have been trying and failing at it for years and the differences in power and abilities are not nearly as much as a Dragonball game would be let alone a complex fighting game.

As I said they will likely all be equal in power then have some different gauges and specials like the Saiyans can transform for a stat boost or humans can combo break. But no more than that.

edited 14th Jun '17 5:05:07 AM by Memers


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