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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#58726: Jun 13th 2017 at 5:50:40 AM

You'd take those three over Semiperfect Cell and Frieza and Buu's lesser forms? And Gohan (Potential Unlocked) and Piccolo (fused w/ Nail) and Kibitoshin?

edited 13th Jun '17 5:51:51 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#58727: Jun 13th 2017 at 5:55:00 AM

given how many people screamed bloody murder over Semi-Perfect Cell and Freeza's 2nd/3rd forms not being in Xenoverse

I thought you were being srs

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#58728: Jun 13th 2017 at 5:56:11 AM

[up][up][up][up][up] He was 10 or 11 in the era when we call him 'Teen Gohan'. Buu era Gohan was 17 or 18.

edited 13th Jun '17 5:56:32 AM by Memers

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#58729: Jun 13th 2017 at 6:07:49 AM

[up][up] I bet none of those people even used them either. Everyone just goes straight to their final forms.

And now I am remembering that Arcsys aren't new to making alternates to existing characters lol. There's three versions of the main villain in Blazblue and obviously Order Sol and Robo Ky from Guilty Gear. Blue Goku and Vegeta seem likely now.

edited 13th Jun '17 6:08:18 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#58730: Jun 13th 2017 at 6:11:51 AM

Just look at Extreme Butoden. We even had Adult Super Saiyan Gohan as a separate slot from Ultimate Gohan, who the fuck even wants that? But from the naming so far, I was thinking that we'd have no repeats at all. But I just really want to avoid a repeat of Extreme's roster.

BigBlackBangBro Time Stranger Since: Sep, 2016
Time Stranger
#58731: Jun 13th 2017 at 6:12:17 AM

Teen Gohan shouldn't be a thing in Japanese right ?

edited 13th Jun '17 6:12:49 AM by BigBlackBangBro

35 year old white man.
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#58732: Jun 13th 2017 at 6:13:41 AM

Gohan was 4 at the start of Z. About one year passes between Raditz and Vegeta, making him 5 (it's a bit under a year but there are enough smaller time skips to make up the difference). A year passes between Namek going boom and Goku returning, making him 6. Three years pass between that and the Androids, making him 9. He spends about a year (bit less, actually) inside the HTC, making him 10. Seven years pass before Boo, making him 17. Ten years pass before the epilogue, making him 27.

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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#58733: Jun 13th 2017 at 6:16:25 AM

[up] (2) Did Extreme Butoden allow in-game transformations? If not then extra slots are just a necessary evil of game design, not necessarily a problem with allowing the average player to play as any one of the transformations the character has available.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#58734: Jun 13th 2017 at 6:18:49 AM

He was 4 1/2 when Raditz showed and ~320 days in the chamber hence why it could be either 10 or 11. Its likely 10 but he should be almost 11.

And Trunks and Goten are currently older than he would be at max...

edited 13th Jun '17 6:23:22 AM by Memers

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#58735: Jun 13th 2017 at 6:22:28 AM

The extra slots are justified in some cases like with Teen Gohan and Ultimate. But then it gets dumb like having three different Goku's and Vegetas in BT 3.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#58736: Jun 13th 2017 at 6:26:49 AM

Tenkaichi 3?

Early, Mid, and Late-Series Goku. Sounds reasonable to me given the way the game's movelist were designed.

Each had their own iconic finisher/transformation. Early only gets the Kaioken rush attack Goku used on Nappa, Mid is the one that gets Super Saiyan and the Angry Kamehameha/Instant Kamehameha don't remember which, and Late gets everything from Super Saiyan 2 to 4 and Super Dragon Fist. You could lop all of these together but for roleplaying purposes you'd have to be extra-careful not to use certain moves, or switch moves around to fit certain battles.

Same deal with Vegeta: Early gets Dirty Fireworks, Mid gets Final Flash (I think), not sure what Late got, and Majin got the self-destruct.

edited 13th Jun '17 6:27:36 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#58737: Jun 13th 2017 at 6:28:21 AM

That still doesn't change the fact that six slots taken up by two characters.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#58738: Jun 13th 2017 at 6:28:56 AM

In Japan, Kid Gohan is "Childhood" Gohan, Teen Gohan is "Boyhood" Gohan and Adult Gohan is "Adolescent" Gohan.

It makes sense, but it doesn't sound as snappy.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#58739: Jun 13th 2017 at 6:34:11 AM

...doesn't change the fact that it makes roleplaying more convenient and fun? Unorthodox is not the same as being an objectively poor decision.tongue

Six slots, yes, and yet Tenkaichi 3 still probably has the highest number of characters out of every Dragonball game (sans Fusions) and still managed to be playable, and probably still made a much larger roster than Extreme Butoden and Xenoverse, and every Tenkaichi and Budokai before them. If this actually prevented the roster from being gigantic then I would have a problem.

Meanwhile Super Saiyan 4 is DLC for Xenoverse.

edited 13th Jun '17 6:36:35 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#58740: Jun 13th 2017 at 6:39:22 AM

Except that Raging Blast had a single Goku character that was easily able to cover everything Early, Mid, Late Goku did and far more. Tenkaichi's division was absolute bullshit, all it meant is that you couldn't always have the form you wanted in the costume you wanted

edit: As for the roleplaying thing and being careful, that's incredibly stupid. Not only is it super fucking easy to just not use the supers that you don't want to (assuming they're all equipped unlike in the far superior customization systems) but how is that a benefit over being able to do something with a character that's not a copy-paste of a moment from the show? One of the video game's biggest flaws is assuming things only work when performed in the exact way they were in the show.

edited 13th Jun '17 6:41:50 AM by Saiga

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#58741: Jun 13th 2017 at 6:49:52 AM

That's the thing; most people just want to play and reenact the show instead of actually having a good and well designed game.

That's why BT 3 is so popular despite half it's roster being weird as fuck (seriously, Devilman?)

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Nap1100 Since: Mar, 2012
#58742: Jun 13th 2017 at 6:56:10 AM

The problem is you shouldn't expect DBFZ to have a huge roster at launch with the amount of effort that's seemingly going into this. Making the cel-shaded models that ASW does takes a ton of time and resources.

I'd rather that effort go into completely new characters than alternate forms. Save those for the inevitable DLC/rereleases.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#58743: Jun 13th 2017 at 6:58:03 AM

Except that Raging Blast

Yeah but Raging Blast sucked.

all it meant is that you couldn't always have the form you wanted in the costume you wanted

...such as?

You can play as Super Saiyan 3 Goku... in the costume that Goku wore during that time period.

Also, modding for that game is insane for anybody that needs these extra costumes you apparently can't access.

that's incredibly stupid. Not only is it super fucking easy to just not use the supers that you don't want to

And that's presumptuous.

(assuming they're all equipped unlike in the far superior customization systems) but how is that a benefit over being able to do something with a character that's not a copy-paste of a moment from the show? One of the video game's biggest flaws is assuming things only work when performed in the exact way they were in the show.

And that's the point where we're clearly not going to agree.

That's the thing; most people just want to play and reenact the show instead of actually having a good and well designed game.

It's almost like people are playing a video game based off an anime they watched when they were kids for wish fulfillment. Perish the thought.

And I mean Budokai 3 and Infinite World and Xenoverse kind of set a standard for "balance."

Seriously Devilman

Screw that, the Devilman side mission was great.

The problem is you shouldn't expect DBFZ to have a huge roster at launch with the amount of effort that's seemingly going into this. Making the cel-shaded models that ASW does takes a ton of time and resources.

That's not what anyone's expecting (least not where I jumped in). But having an issue with extra character slots in a game that has a large roster to begin with is silly.

In DBZF's case not adding Super Buu or Super Buuhan would pretty much nullify any point to adding Ultimate Gohan or Gotenks if there's to be a story mode, since they fought mainly during those periods.

edited 13th Jun '17 7:03:07 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#58744: Jun 13th 2017 at 7:07:42 AM

If I wanted to relive the show...Id watch the show :v if you're going to make a game, make an actual game instead of an obvious cash grab

In fact, we have a trope for this very situation. Id rather DBF avoid that.

edited 13th Jun '17 7:08:06 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#58745: Jun 13th 2017 at 7:09:08 AM

I have to appreciate that there's 1 Dragon Ball game that lets me pit Devilman against Freeza.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#58746: Jun 13th 2017 at 7:13:07 AM

Raging Blast 1/2 are fine. They're not great, but neither are the Tenkaichi series. The games really aren't that different, and RB's Goku is far superior to Tenkaichi's for having everything on one character at literally no cost at all.

Being stuck in the time period appropriate costumes for the transformation is EXACTLY the problem. I don't see how keeping things exactly the same is more 'wish fulfillment' than being able to play around and do things differently. The fact that you need mods to fix what the division of characters did does not speak highly for separating them in the first place.

There's nothing presumptuous about saying it's easy not to use the 'non-compliant' abilities - the commands for them are so stupidly easy a retarded gerbil could play a character faithfully to the story. Don't want Goku to use the Meteor Combination? Don't push Triangle, Up and L2 at the same time. I have to assume you never actually play fights with characters unless they fought against each other in canon, for accuracy.

But having an issue with extra character slots in a game that has a large roster to begin with is silly.

No it isn't. Not if you actually understood what the problem with splitting characters over multiple slots was in the first place.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#58747: Jun 13th 2017 at 7:51:57 AM

a r———- gerbil

Can you avoid using that word please?

edited 13th Jun '17 10:12:18 AM by Moth13

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#58748: Jun 13th 2017 at 7:59:16 AM

Saiga, is there any actual problem with Character having multiple slots? They can always just add more slots.

Though I agree that designing a system where you can just switch around moves and transformations on a single character slot also sounds retardedly easy.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#58749: Jun 13th 2017 at 8:04:00 AM

The Budoukai games did it. If they did it all those years ago, it can be done now. In fact, Xenoverse more or less does it with your CAC. Just give a similar system to the canon characters and you're golden.

edited 13th Jun '17 8:04:37 AM by Zelenal

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#58750: Jun 13th 2017 at 8:06:05 AM

I mean, I think both systems are fine. I would think we are already past the era when memory limitation... well limited the number of character slots they could put in a game.


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