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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#57276: May 18th 2017 at 10:39:26 AM

To be fair, I'm wondering if she even realized he was just a kid at first.

The entire incident happened pretty fast. Maybe she wondered if she hit some kind of monster, so she panicked and fired.

I'll need to double check both versions to be sure myself.

But yeah, trying to con him out of his ball was far worse.

One Strip! One Strip!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#57278: May 19th 2017 at 1:46:12 AM

So is one of the Multiform Cells (that would be Cell at 1/4th power) as strong as a Cell Jr. or a lot stronger?

I mean, Goku trashed the Cells pretty handily... But the Cell Jr's were around Vegeta and Trunks level, right? Could Goku have beaten Vegeta and Trunks as easily as he beat the Cells? Seems unlikely.

But it's like, it's hard to imagine a Cell Jr. being a quarter as strong as Cell, even a suppressed Cell.

edited 19th May '17 1:46:35 AM by Nikkolas

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#57279: May 19th 2017 at 2:52:55 AM

You're talking about the anime. Each Cell was as strong as the original, but weaker than Goku. The original was stronger than Goku. There is nothing to be gained from questioning that.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#57280: May 19th 2017 at 2:59:57 AM

Wait...what? You mean in the manga the 4 Cells didn't have divided power? But wasn't he explicitly using Tien's technique which had that very drastic flaw?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#57281: May 19th 2017 at 3:01:34 AM

In the manga he didn't USE the technique. In the anime, he uses the technique but apparently does so without dividing his power - but 16 states Goku is stronger than all of them, despite Goku being weaker than the original, because the anime don give a fuck.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#57282: May 19th 2017 at 3:02:53 AM

...huh. That is pretty dumb.

Oh well then, nevermind. Thank you for the information and carry on discussing all this new stuff.

edited 19th May '17 3:03:18 AM by Nikkolas

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#57283: May 19th 2017 at 3:06:26 AM

Oh, but on Goku vs Vegeta/Trunks... maybe? Like everyone was pretty blown away by Goku's full power, and the Cell Junior was supposedly not a threat to a healthy Goku.

But then, Vegeta and Trunks had seen 50% of Goku's power, and Vegeta showed up confident that he was stronger than that (and despite the memes, when Vegeta knows how powerful something is he doesn't bullshit). Trunks was iffy. So I'd say Vegeta was probably past Goku's 50%, but Trunks could very well still be weaker. Since they're not hugely different, they both could be close to Goku's power.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#57284: May 19th 2017 at 3:12:18 AM

Really? Neat. Most people I see place it as Cell being way above Goku and Gohan who in turn were way above everyone else.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#57285: May 19th 2017 at 3:14:33 AM

Depends on how you see "way above". Just past Goku's 50% still leaves plenty of room. And since Cell was beating Goku, but not that impressive to Gohan, and then was able to power up somewhat to beat Gohan... I don't think there could be massive differences there without someone saying something. I mean, Cell goes from apparently being stronger to Gohan, to powering up a HUGE amount and getting his ass whupped by Super Saiyan 2 Gohan... the gaps are probably not as big as people make out.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#57286: May 19th 2017 at 3:19:56 AM

Super Saiyan 2 Gohan is also just 2 times Super Saiyan Gohan. And, seeing how he managed to overpower Cell's equivalent of Super Saiyan 2, I'd wager he'll be stronger than Cell if he gave all he could without needing to go SSJ 2.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#57287: May 19th 2017 at 3:22:53 AM

Well, that's kind of dubious given that Gohan was injured and Cell had to be distracted.

I don't think Super Saiyan Gohan was stronger than "full power" Cell. But Cell's full power actually took on the traits of a Super Saiyan Grade II aura, so you could argue that Gohan was stronger than "Super Saiyan 1" Cell and therefore stronger SS2 vs SS2.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#57288: May 19th 2017 at 6:25:24 AM

In the manga he didn't USE the technique. In the anime, he uses the technique but apparently does so without dividing his power - but 16 states Goku is stronger than all of them, despite Goku being weaker than the original, because the anime don give a fuck.

For the record, that inconsistency is because of differences between the original anime and Kai. Dragon Ball Z had it weaken him like normal, while Dragon Ball Kai used that scene to push "Cell can do things better than our protagonists". Another example is that when Cell uses Destructo Disk in Kai it's treated as Krillin's technique, and everyone is impressed that he can move it around unlike Krillin, while the original anime treats it as Frieza's move and doesn't remark about that.

edited 19th May '17 6:25:38 AM by Moth13

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#57289: May 19th 2017 at 8:11:17 AM

Doesn't Kai also have Cell say that he knows the Kaio-Ken, only for him to never use it because of course he never uses it: he never fucking used it!

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#57290: May 19th 2017 at 8:30:31 AM

I just.

Using a too strong Kaioken can hurt you a lot.

I want to know if Kaioken could give Cell a Zenkai that he can then regenerate from because Namekian.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#57291: May 19th 2017 at 8:36:11 AM

I love the Kaioken, so I really wish it hadn't been tossed out.

If nothing else, I've learned that when Toriyama wants the story to go a certain way, he's more than willing to do it, so he could have easily figured out a way to downplay or write out that flaw.

I mean, he had Goku and Gohan go full time Super Saiyan to work around the stamina drain right?

I get why he did it, since Super Saiyan became a thing, but I wish he hadn't.

Edit: [up] I'm gonna say yes.

edited 19th May '17 8:36:49 AM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#57292: May 19th 2017 at 8:37:51 AM

The idea of Cell basically being able to become infinitely stronger because of his biology and the kaioken is dumb and ridiculous and I like it.

edited 19th May '17 8:40:54 AM by unnoun

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#57293: May 19th 2017 at 8:42:58 AM

I wish Cell used more moves. Usually it's just Kamehameha.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#57294: May 19th 2017 at 9:02:23 AM

Someone mentioned earlier that Toriryama may not care much for more eccentric techniques (Multiform, Destructo Disk etc) considering how often they turn out to be useless or have massive, unconquerable flaws.

This is compared to the Kamehameha, which is pretty universally useful. The biggest problem is how long you take to charge it, and the enemies always stand there and let you anyway, so...

One Strip! One Strip!
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#57295: May 19th 2017 at 9:03:39 AM

Doesn't he have to be near death for a Zenkai to activate? It's why being reduced to a single cell allowed him to become even stronger. Namekian's regeneration and Freiza's durability means that it's going to be difficult to reach near death.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#57296: May 19th 2017 at 9:04:32 AM

He Just has to Kaioken the hell out of himself until he's melting or something or parts of his body explode.

Problem solved.

One Strip! One Strip!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#57297: May 19th 2017 at 9:07:48 AM

I thought Kai was supposed to make things less bullshit, not more.

My various fanfics.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#57298: May 19th 2017 at 9:23:18 AM

[up][up][up]I mean, if you use a kaioken that your body can't handle/do it wrong, your heart can explode.

I dunno how intense of a kaioken Cell would need for it to almost kill him, but. I imagine it exists, probably.

edited 19th May '17 9:25:01 AM by unnoun

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#57299: May 19th 2017 at 11:37:04 AM

I don't know why it took me this long, but I just noticed that Vegeta's face is in the shape of a heart. I'm now imagining a generic Valentine's day card, except all the pretty hearts are Vegeta's face in red and pink, instead.

edited 19th May '17 11:37:42 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#57300: May 19th 2017 at 11:43:02 AM

I want to know if Kaioken could give Cell a Zenkai that he can then regenerate from because Namekian.

No, self harm doesn't give Zenkai.


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