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DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#56351: Apr 30th 2017 at 3:27:05 PM

I think it was a transformation from the start. As I recall, when Gohan first got the upgrade, he asked Old Kai how to access it, and Old Kai said something about it being similar to a Super Saiyan transformation.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#56352: Apr 30th 2017 at 3:30:56 PM

So Gohan is back where he was during Boo saga, and Piccolo is weaker than him.

Man, they are lagging behind. I mean obviously with Goku and Vegeta, but 17 is way stronger than them at this point. I really didn't expect him to be the third strongest team member of all people.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#56353: Apr 30th 2017 at 3:33:51 PM

But he retained the changed physical features from every point after that.

This isn't the first time it has been treated as a transformation - Movie 13 had him "power up" into the form, and they could choose to portray it as a quasi-transformation where going from being rested/suppressed to full power changes his features slightly without being a full on transformation. But if he doesn't keep the fully enclosed eyes in "base" form, then yeah, it's inconsistent.

Super has really gone back and forth on whether his base form eyes are fully outlined or not. He's even had fully outlined eyes when he didn't have access to his Ultimate power up.

[up] Whether that will actually remain consistent in the tournament is yet to be seen.

edited 30th Apr '17 3:34:29 PM by Saiga

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#56354: Apr 30th 2017 at 3:34:03 PM

Unless of course, you know, Gohan is stronger than he was against Super Buu, due to all the training he's been doing with Piccolo since Frieza's revival.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#56355: Apr 30th 2017 at 3:36:46 PM

I though it was basically a transformation, but he could keep it indefinitely and it didn't put any stress on his body so he could, for all intents and purposes, use it as his "base" form.

[up][up]Oh, this is Super so all bets are off.

[up]Piccolo was talking the whole time about Gohan getting back his "old power", so I don't think that's the case.

edited 30th Apr '17 3:39:33 PM by Shlugo_the_great

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#56356: Apr 30th 2017 at 3:39:41 PM

I think it's more like a one-time, permanent transformation. They treat it more like a state of being that Gohan needs to do the final step to become.

I mean, it's a more advanced form of unlocking potential, which is a one-time transformation.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#56357: Apr 30th 2017 at 3:41:13 PM

But then he can lose it by not training being a nerd.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#56358: Apr 30th 2017 at 3:44:04 PM

Going by Gohan's spar against Goku a few episodes back, as well as their respective performances against Krillin, they're pretty comparable in base and Super Saiyan forms, the difference between Piccolo and 17 isn't actually that large.

Updated U7 tiers (approximate):

SSB KK Goku

SSB Vegeta/Goku

Android 17

Ultimate Gohan/SS3 Goku

Piccolo/Buu(?)

SS2 Vegeta/Goku/Gohan

Buu(?)

SS1 Vegeta/Goku/Gohan

Buu(?)/Android 18

Vegeta/Goku/Gohan

Krillin/Tenshinhan/Roshi

Note that I have no fucking clue where Buu is on this scale.

edited 30th Apr '17 3:48:01 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#56359: Apr 30th 2017 at 3:44:51 PM

[up][up] Yeah but gaining something magically then losing it and regaining it from training are just a big ???

[up] So you think the Saiyans are more like their Boo arc strengths despite the other Super feats?

edited 30th Apr '17 3:45:43 PM by Saiga

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#56360: Apr 30th 2017 at 3:45:50 PM

[up]x3 Which really makes no sense; he still had it in Battle of Gods, even though it had been six years since Buu happened and he most likely never kept up his training, yet within one more year or so he both loses that and his ability to use Super Saiyan 2, hell he doesn't even seem that confident that he can still use Super Saiyan 1, even though he still had access to both after the seven years between Cell and Buu, when he was most likely not training during that time either.

edited 30th Apr '17 3:46:24 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#56361: Apr 30th 2017 at 3:46:39 PM

Obviously it depends more on his choice of haircut than ANYTHING else.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#56362: Apr 30th 2017 at 3:48:21 PM

[up][up][up][up] Come on, it's pretty obvious that Goku was adjusting his power when sparring with Gohan. Anything else would mean that Goku made like no progress since Boo saga.

[up][up]He reached critical nerd mass at some point. tongue

edited 30th Apr '17 3:48:51 PM by Shlugo_the_great

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#56363: Apr 30th 2017 at 3:49:08 PM

Where the Saiyans are is mostly dependent on how strong Buu is in comparison to them, which I am lost on.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#56364: Apr 30th 2017 at 3:51:36 PM

[up][up] Hey, that's not true. Gohan could have just been equal to Goku's power level for that episode alone.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#56365: Apr 30th 2017 at 3:53:11 PM

Base Goku had no problem sparring with the powered up Boo, who wanted to show off his new strength and so had no reason to hold back, so that's a pretty clear indication.

[up]Are you saying that power levels in Super fluctuate on an per episode basis? That's... yeah okay it often seems that way.

edited 30th Apr '17 3:54:48 PM by Shlugo_the_great

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#56366: Apr 30th 2017 at 3:53:56 PM

It's possible that Gohan is stronger than he was in the Buu Saga, but not to the point where his Super Saiyan 2 form has surpassed his Ultimate state.

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#56367: Apr 30th 2017 at 4:47:17 PM

My favorite part of these episodes has honestly been seeing Gohan get beaten up by everyone, if only because the reactions on 4chan are a treat to read.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#56368: Apr 30th 2017 at 4:56:16 PM

Gohan fans must be pretty hard right now.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#56369: Apr 30th 2017 at 4:59:53 PM

Nothing really has happened though, I mean he still got his ass kicked constantly by Piccolo. When he actually does and wins something then maybe.

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#56370: Apr 30th 2017 at 5:01:54 PM

Gohan wins a fight during the Royal Rumble.

He is then immediately punted out of the ring by Jiren. evil grin

MightyMatilda Mr. Clueless from New Jersey, USA Since: Jan, 2015
Mr. Clueless
#56371: Apr 30th 2017 at 5:15:55 PM

Cabba's scene with Renso was far and away the best part of this episode. I've never been a tremendous fan of fight scenes.

Also, there go my hopes of seeing Evil Launch in Dragon Ball Super.

De Romanīs, lingua Latina gloriosa non fuī.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#56372: Apr 30th 2017 at 5:19:01 PM

Not necessarily. For all we know, that girl at Tenshinhan's dojo is actually the villain of the episode who instigated that evil tag thing. My hopes for the next episode amount to "Chiaotzu does some fighting". That's it. Tenshinhan fighting is a given, and we see Roshi fighting, but I want to see Chiaotzu doing some fighting.

BigBlackBangBro Time Stranger Since: Sep, 2016
Time Stranger
#56373: Apr 30th 2017 at 5:22:41 PM

Good thing the Universal Survival Match is battle royal. Gohan will atleast one win :p. Then again everyone on U7 should atleast get one..

35 year old white man.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#56374: Apr 30th 2017 at 5:22:46 PM

"With your power this universe is safe!"

"Actually I ain't shit, not gonna lie."

My various fanfics.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#56375: Apr 30th 2017 at 5:29:18 PM

Ah poor Gohan, once the greatest warrior in the universe now a bit of punching bag among other things.

Well its not like he doesn't deserve it.

There is never any excuse for being lazy & descending into mediocrity.

edited 30th Apr '17 5:29:43 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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