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Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#55551: Apr 9th 2017 at 10:33:02 AM

The fight was kind of excessive, really, but the main reason it probably went on so long (in-universe) is because Videl was too stubborn to accept the fact that she had gotten beaten.

Really, I'm not bothered by the fact that it's a girl getting beaten as I am bothered by the fact that none of the tournament officials tried to stop the very clearly one-sided match that could have possibly ended with her death.

edited 9th Apr '17 10:33:44 AM by Hobgoblin

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#55552: Apr 9th 2017 at 10:33:14 AM

I think what pushed me into complete discomfort was when Spopovich just licked his lips in the middle of it. It felt super rape-y and made me feel sick.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#55553: Apr 9th 2017 at 10:34:02 AM

Uh...Am I being accused of being sexist because I was uncomfortable with the fight?

No. To be honest I forgot you were the one to bring it up.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#55554: Apr 9th 2017 at 10:53:27 AM

[up][up][up]

That bothered me a lot as well. Nobody lifted a finger to do a thing and that's utter bullshit. I don't care that Spopovitch wasn't breaking the letter of the rules. He was clearly going against the spirit (grabbing Videl to keep her from falling out).

The ref should have just called the match himself at that point. It was clear to everyone who won that fight.

To say nothing of Goku, who can (and has) pushed someone out of the ring without touching them before, or Piccolo, who's demonstrated telekinesis or whatever that is he used to float Gohan all those years ago.

There were hundreds of ways to stop that fight before Gohan lost it, or before Yamu jumped in.

One Strip! One Strip!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#55555: Apr 9th 2017 at 11:00:27 AM

For the record, I'm not saying you aren't allowed to find the fight vicious. I'm just calling out the double standards in how people are accusing the fight of excessive brutality when there have been other brutal fights in the whole series that people have glossed over.

Videl's fight isn't any more brutal than Freeza's torture of Vegeta, or when King Piccolo/Piccolo Jr tortured Goku back in Dragon Ball. And I once again cite that one of the main reasons for people's sudden outcry against the fight is because Videl is a woman. That's not me calling you a misogynistic pig, or that you're wrong for feeling that way. But I am acknowledging that society as a whole takes violence against women and children far more negatively than violence against men. It simply is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#55556: Apr 9th 2017 at 11:09:26 AM

It's not about finding the brutality of the fight uncomfortable.

It's about the fact that people say it's the most brutal fight in the series when it isn't. Videl did not get the worst or most sadistic beatdown in the series.

The only reason people think it's the most brutal fight in the series is because it happened to a woman. That's what I'm calling sexist.

Because Goku, Vegeta and even Gohan have been beat up way, way worse. And it's not even a big deal for Videl herself.

Furthermore, it's completely normal to be sexist like this. One of the first rules you learn in the playground is you don't hit girls. It's rare for a female character to get a brutal beatdown, even in series aimed at women.

This is why I actually praise this fight - because it treats Videl the same as it would any other male character. And yes, Dragon Ball did previously 'fridge' male characters.

edited 9th Apr '17 11:12:08 AM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#55557: Apr 9th 2017 at 11:11:42 AM

She's super durable...despite her going out of commission.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55558: Apr 9th 2017 at 11:12:44 AM

None of them have been beaten as mercilessly though. As in, their opponents were willing to stop and show mercy at some point of their own accord, even if that mercy was death. Spopovich never gave any indication of intending to stop on his own, and he only stopped because Yamu told him to quit fooling around.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#55559: Apr 9th 2017 at 11:17:22 AM

Because the beatdowns of prior villains inflicted just more actual injuries to the body...they are more brutal by default.

The heroes were essentially crippled throughout the fight as their limbs almost always got broken, or they just got holes in the chest...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#55560: Apr 9th 2017 at 11:17:44 AM

I hated the fight because it was brutal and because it was Videl's only major fight. I wouldn't have had much issue with it if she were able to make a comeback.

edited 9th Apr '17 11:19:31 AM by LordVatek

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IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#55561: Apr 9th 2017 at 11:20:51 AM

Here, have a video in which Vegeta crushes Goku to the point that he, an experienced veteran warrior, is screaming in agony

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#55562: Apr 9th 2017 at 11:21:03 AM

I mean, the fact that people complain about the announcer not stepping in says a lot. She's the one who refused to give up, more than once. If that had been a man people would call him but stupid but most probably wouldn't be saying "the match should be ended for his own good".

I mean, you could partially justify that by Videl still being a teenager, but I haven't actually seen her age referenced so that really only leaves her sex. And even the age bit falls flat considering the stuff Goku, Krillin, and Gohan went through when they were even younger than her.

edited 9th Apr '17 1:57:39 PM by LSBK

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#55563: Apr 9th 2017 at 11:23:35 AM

And even if her age was referenced...

Gohan was physically and psychologically tortured when he was 9, and while people do claim that Goku should've stepped in when Gohan proved he wasn't willing to fight, you don't get people calling it the most brutal fight in the series.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#55564: Apr 9th 2017 at 11:26:48 AM

Probably because it wasn't...

Gohand refusing to fight and Cell's provocation aside, it wasn't really much of a torture device. It's not like he was ever in danger.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#55565: Apr 9th 2017 at 11:29:48 AM

Even that situation is ridiculous when you realize what it comes down to is that people want Goku to put being a "good father" ahead of the fate of the world. And then you have people praising Piccolo's speech to Goku even though Piccolo was wrong about why Gohan wasn't really fighting.

edited 9th Apr '17 11:30:15 AM by LSBK

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#55566: Apr 9th 2017 at 11:31:23 AM

The most brutal fight in the series was probably Gohan vs Recoom. And by fight I mean, one sided beat down that ended with Recoome breaking Gohan neck. And Gohan was like what, five at the time?

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#55567: Apr 9th 2017 at 11:34:12 AM

Relevant

"Mai waifu."
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#55568: Apr 9th 2017 at 11:35:10 AM

Before I click, how old is this video?

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#55569: Apr 9th 2017 at 11:38:07 AM

Late 2015...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#55570: Apr 9th 2017 at 12:00:58 PM

So... shall I dissect that video?

Meh, I've got nothing better to do right now.

Okay, so, here we go.

They start off with the conclusion that it's the most brutal scene. Everything they say will be colored by their prejudiced conclusion that it's the most brutal scene in the series. This is especially evident when they later downplay every other brutal scene in the series to make this one look worse, trying to bring up reasons why the others weren't as bad.

The guy admits that the real reason he finds the scene extra bad is because it's man on woman violence. He admits it outright.

The girl in that video whose name I don't care about does the downplaying. She explains that she 'doesn't deserve it'. She also mentions that 'Videl didn't know what she was signing in for', except she knew what she was staying in when she chose to not surrender. Then she also brings up how there were no real stakes on this fight, except there were, stakes personal to Videl.

Because I think that it's not really about Videl, it never really is - it's about people being uncomfortable that it's a girl getting beat up.

Then the guy brings up that what bugs him is the aftermath, and then that he's bugged by the fact that it wasn't Gohan that killed Spopovich. The fun thing is, they're complaining about the fact that it wasn't a fridging. That Videl didn't get beat up to motivate a male character - rather, she got beat up to force Gohan to transform so the heroes could learn where the bad guys where. They're complaining that this isn't Women In Refrigerators.

It was never as big a deal for the characters as these people think it was. Once the moment was over, Gohan calmed down. Because it was not a big deal in the end.

Then they say that it sends a 'bad message'. More importantly, she complains that Videl's 'balls' are portraying as a negative. Even she admits that it's a stretch. Because I think deep down she knows that what she's saying is bullshit. It's not her courage that's portrayed as a negative. It's her stubbornness and stupidity about the fight. Even Goku gave up against an opponent he could not defeat instead of staying into the fight and getting the shit kicked out of him when it wasn't necessary.

Then she says that it's portrayed like 'it's her fault' that she's getting beat up, because she didn't surrender. And it is! She could've surrendered at any time, and she didn't, it's her fault that she got the crap beat out of her, because she is stubborn and fearless.

The guy brings up that if she had given up, people would be complaining about it sending the message of 'women are quitters'. Which I think would actually be the case.

They also proceed to lie about how 'not giving up' in any other situation is portrayed as noble or as a good trait. It's not her determination that's played as a negative, it's her stubbornly clinging to her pride because she refuses to surrender that's played as negative. You know, the same flaw that Vegeta has, which later culminates in him going full evil once again.

They said it themselves - there were no stakes, which I countered with 'the only stakes are personal to Videl'. She gets the shit kicked out of her because she stayed in a fight she could not win.

Then she proceeds to lie about how 'Videl becomes a lot more passive'. That didn't happen until Super, where she became a housewife, and it had nothing to do with Spopovich. Videl did not change after the beatdown. The beatdown was nowhere near as big a deal in-universe as it was outside. Videl got back up like it was nothing and if she had thought she was able to contribute, she would've gone on to fight Babidi's minions.

They also complain about how her character development 'came from her getting beat up', how it made her 'learn her lesson'. You know who also learned lessons like that? VEGETA.

They're hypocrites. They're hypocrites. They're complaining that a female character is getting the exact same treatment as a male character.

What they're complaining about is that Videl didn't receive special treatment because she is female.

edited 9th Apr '17 12:01:46 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#55571: Apr 9th 2017 at 12:03:15 PM

...

Hmmm.

Ok. What are you're guys thoughts on The Surrender option?

I definitely don't think that it's her fault for not surrendering (I think it's similar to the thing with going for the Spirit Bomb instead of just calling Gohan: that's how Toriyama wanted it, so that's how it went down).

I do understand why she refused: she's the daughter of the hero of the world, up against a guy said father beat with ridiculous ease at the last tournament. She feels she has a rep to live up to, and add in her natural stubbornness. She likely thought her dad endured worse against Cell, so she can find a way through this.

I do think the towel should have been thrown in at the head twisting. That was the moment where Videl really should have considered if she really could win or not.

But I still chastise the officials for just letting it continue, lack of rule breaking or not.

Edit: [up] Yeah. There's definitely some pride in there. I think this is just a sensitive issue.

edited 9th Apr '17 12:06:01 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#55572: Apr 9th 2017 at 12:08:58 PM

Chastising the officials for not calling the match is asking for Videl to receive special treatment.

Why?

For the record, I think Videl would've been way more upset at having to be rescued by the match getting called early than she ever was about getting the shit kicked out of her.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#55573: Apr 9th 2017 at 12:10:20 PM

I mean, if by her fault you mean was it a bad decision not to give up when she had multiple opportunities to do so? Yes. Do I think her making a bad decision somehow brands her or all women as terrible fighters and people with poor judgment, or that the series is trying to say that? No.

And I will never get behind this "officials should have stopped the match" because that is not an attitude that has ever come up before. If you have a problem with the rules in general, fine, but there is nothing actually special about this situation that should somehow overrule them.

edited 9th Apr '17 12:11:29 PM by LSBK

Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#55574: Apr 9th 2017 at 12:10:24 PM

I dont think he would have let her surrender anyway. Someone would have had to step in.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#55575: Apr 9th 2017 at 12:13:36 PM

The announcer guy straight up asked her if she wanted to quit, and Spopo didn't intervene. She plainly refused to quit.

edited 9th Apr '17 12:14:09 PM by LSBK


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