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IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#55526: Apr 9th 2017 at 6:48:52 AM

I mean, Nappa was crushing the heroes in both mind and body, Vegeta broke every bone in Goku's body by crushing him slowly, Freeza tortured Vegeta until he was both physically and psychologicaly broken, then made Krilling explode and then got the lower half and one of his arms chopped off, Cell was eating people, then he slowly tortured Gohan and the Z fighters, not to mention reducing 16 to just a head that he later crushed by stepping on, Buu turned Chichi into an egg and crushed her, was also eating people, Piccolo got turned into a statue and broken...

Needless to say, Dragon Ball has always been brutal.

I think the overreaction about Videl's beating says something about the people who overreacted, more than it does the manga...

edited 9th Apr '17 6:50:26 AM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#55527: Apr 9th 2017 at 7:11:35 AM

Masako's review of the latest episode is up:

I've been following him since I caught up with DBS a couple months ago, and I gotta say, I really enjoy his recaps/reviews. I especially like it when he uses his Goku voice to paraphrase something Goku said in the episode [lol]

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#55528: Apr 9th 2017 at 7:31:31 AM

Yea, I don't think anybody would have reacted as badly toward Videl's fight if she wasn't a girl, because Men Are Generic, Women Are Special. It's an unfortunate mindset a lot of us grow up with and why we're told how "wrong" it is to hit women, but perfectly fine to hit men. :)

I was more disappointed by what happened to her AFTER than the fight itself.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#55529: Apr 9th 2017 at 8:11:14 AM

It's not even the 'after the fight' bit, it's not really chickification until Super, where she is a Housewife.

It's Super that dropped the ball.

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#55530: Apr 9th 2017 at 8:17:21 AM

I was a bit annoyed back in the day how she was just kind of sidelined after that, but then I was a dumb 10 year old who wanted to see some payback.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#55531: Apr 9th 2017 at 8:20:56 AM

If I'm being honest, the level of violence going on was very alien to me as a kid. Not just Dragon Ball either, but anything I watched.

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#55532: Apr 9th 2017 at 8:44:55 AM

[up][up][up][up] Masako geeking on the Space Whale Jet is adorable.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55533: Apr 9th 2017 at 9:06:56 AM

The response and reaction to that scene isn't just about the content, but also the way it's framed and written. That scene is specifically written and drawn in such a way as to make that beat down as uncomfortable as possible.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#55534: Apr 9th 2017 at 9:08:09 AM

And so are a lot of other fights in the series. So what makes this one any different aside from the fact that the recipient of said beatdown is a woman?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55535: Apr 9th 2017 at 9:18:36 AM

Goku vs Piccolo was written from Goku's point of view, and he ended up winning the fight anyways. Vegeta vs 18's impact is blunted by Vegeta being a raging asshole who we want to see get flattened like a pancake, and we're expecting some level of brutality from the Androids. Videl vs Spopovich is told from the audience's point of view, of a fight where a much smaller and much more likable member of the cast than Vegeta, is mercilessly beaten down by a much larger opponent with previously unknown character and motives, far past the point where it's clear she has no chance of winning whatsoever. It's not just that she's being tortured, but that she's being tortured so suddenly and unexpectedly, and we get to see the audience's and our main character's reactions of horror.

It's like if General Blue had beaten up Krillin while he was paralyzed for way longer than he did, and it kept cutting back to Bulma's horrified reaction at seeing this child get brutalized, except even worse, because we already knew who Blue was and what he wanted before the fight began.

edited 9th Apr '17 9:19:43 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#55536: Apr 9th 2017 at 9:31:09 AM

So, it's somehow more sadistic when we see the reactions of a bunch of people we don't care about to a brutal fight, but not when we see our main character and his friend's (including his best friend, former mentor, and fiance in present) reactions?

I don't understand why you're going through such lengths to explain this. The fact is, everything you listed is rather superfluous to the whole thing. The Vegeta part makes even less sense because even if he was an asshole at the time, the characters never tried to rationalize that he "deserves" it and every time he's beaten down is met with horrified reactions from the cast. Yea sure, we the audience might not care and think he deserves it, but how we feel and how the characters in-universe feel aren't the same.

So to say that and Goku's beatdowns are somehow less horrifying just feels like you're needlessly downplaying those fights to justify not liking Videl's even more.

edited 9th Apr '17 9:32:16 AM by BlackYakuzu94

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#55537: Apr 9th 2017 at 9:36:58 AM

Can you try not being so dismissive?

IAmNotCreativeEnough himitsu keisatsu from asa kara ban made omae o miru Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
himitsu keisatsu
#55538: Apr 9th 2017 at 9:43:10 AM

Dismissive or not, he's right.

The only reason people react to Videl's beatdown the way they do is because she's a woman, and that is more sexist than her getting the stuffing kicked out of her by a burly gray man.

edited 9th Apr '17 9:44:34 AM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#55539: Apr 9th 2017 at 9:44:05 AM

Yakuzu isn't being dismissive, he's explaining his disagreements with Pushover's reasoning.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#55540: Apr 9th 2017 at 9:58:08 AM

Nah, replying to "I find it more brutal because Videl isn't an asshole, is weak compared to most of the cast, and doesn't win" with "no that doesn't matter" is 100% being dismissive.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55541: Apr 9th 2017 at 9:58:20 AM

Piccolo beating down Goku at the end of their fight was also a lot shorter than Spopovich beating down Videl, and that's part of the horror of it: that he is actively going out of his way to keep her in the arena to drag out the pummeling as long as possible. Piccolo and 18 rubbed it in a little, but then they stopped and decided to end the fight. Spopovich showed no signs of ever intending to stop, and he had to be reigned in by his own evil teammate.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#55542: Apr 9th 2017 at 10:02:01 AM

[up][up]Frankly I find that more dismissive than anything he said.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#55543: Apr 9th 2017 at 10:12:55 AM

Uh...Am I being accused of being sexist because I was uncomfortable with the fight? I mean, I was pretty uncomfortable with the fight between Vegeta and Freeza, so it's more a violence thing for me.

edited 9th Apr '17 10:19:24 AM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#55544: Apr 9th 2017 at 10:18:29 AM

Yes. The issue is that that fight is entirely pointless. As has been said she bounces back from it quickly and its the flight to Babadis that makes her realize shes can't contribute. So her only fight was just her getting beatdown for absolutely no reason. It could have just skipped to her trying to follow the others and nothing would be lost.

edited 9th Apr '17 10:20:54 AM by Jedi1113

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#55545: Apr 9th 2017 at 10:21:37 AM

Please tell me this is a joke. I go to sleep and suddenly I'm a sexist for not liking a brutal as hell fight. It's not even because Videl is a woman, it's because it's fucking brutal and hard to watch. If it was a guy I'd still be disgusted by it.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#55546: Apr 9th 2017 at 10:25:01 AM

Well that seems to be the conclusion people are reaching. Personally its missing the point but it is being said yes.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#55547: Apr 9th 2017 at 10:27:41 AM

If this was a teenage boy getting tortured this brutally and mercilessly, the only difference would be Gohan's dumb line about Videl being a girl. The audience reaction would be exactly the same. Besides, the fight definitely had a point: to show Vegeta how powerful Babidi's magic is.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#55548: Apr 9th 2017 at 10:29:48 AM

That line wasn't even in the Kai version, thank god.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Jedi1113 Since: Jun, 2009
#55549: Apr 9th 2017 at 10:31:05 AM

Okay the fight had zero point for Videl and it's the only one she gets all series. That's my issue.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#55550: Apr 9th 2017 at 10:31:22 AM

[up][up]

No. I think it's everyone else who's being accused of sexism for thinking it's worse than any other beating because it's happening to a girl.

That's wasn't my intention. I mean, up until I really sat down and thought about it, I never really thought it was that bad beyond the head twisting part.

Yeah, we've seen other beating like that before (though I saw what Jr. did to Goku after I'd watched Z), but somehow, for me, at least at this point, that one is worse. Maybe because outside of Jr. and Frieza, when a character had that huge an advantage, they eventually stopped screwing around and went for the kill (Jr. wrecking Goku's arms and legs and then getting the finisher ready, and Frieza just shooting out Vegeta's heart).

With Spopovitch, there's zero indication he was ever going to stop on his own. He was gonna torture her for as long as possible... and might not have even let her stop. We saw him stop her from falling out; I've no doubt he would have found a way to keep her from giving up had she actually been willing to do so.

I think it also helps that (barring Goku's insistence on following the rules of the Tournament) those other two fights were battles to the death with the fate of the world at stake. This was just supposed to be a normal tourney match, and then it turns into a massacre. I do think the audience might have been just as horrified if it'd been a male character enduring it (though that might be me being generous, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt here).

edited 9th Apr '17 10:31:31 AM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!

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